The Soapbox

Joined: 01/04/2001 Posts: 26992
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I think there is a persistent tendency for parties to the gun debate to

Speak past each other. Not unlike other "culture war" debates. When I watch debates about abortion rights I sometimes think the two sides are literally arguing different issues.

I don't think anyone in this thread - Balz included - is arguing for a total gun ban. That was the initial assertion. But none of us denies that we have different views about what the 2A should mean. Even if we start from a point of assumed agreement that it protects individual rights to guns at all (not everyone thinks that's what the language says, but let's assume common law says it applies to individuals), nobody thinks it protects individual rights to own any weapon. We all agree there are lines, we just don't all agree about where those lines should be drawn.

What I think the NRA wants to do is take any position about limiting gun access and spin it to mean "they're coming to take all your guns". And many gun rights advocates eagerly join in - makes for a much better campaign issue. Let's take what Boca said just in this thread - I don't know every post he's ever made on the subject. He thinks a line should be drawn with a weapon capable of firing 45 rounds or more per minute. What falls on the wrong side of that line? Bump stocks. Fully automatic weapons. High capacity magazines. But without high capacity mags, can a reasonably competent marksman fire 45 rounds per minute, factoring in reloading time?

I don't know the answer to that, and don't mean to state exactly Balz's or Boca's views. But clearly, neither of them claim to favor banning all guns, which is where this thread started. One thing's for sure - the 2A wasn't protecting individual rights to semi autos or assault style weapons when it was written - they didn't exist. So debating just THAT point is not "assaulting your 2A rights", as Trump stated, because that's inflammatory, riles up the base, gets the subject changed from whatever Trump wants us not to look at right now.

So when a poster or two came here claiming a vote for a dem is a vote to repeal the 2A, which is the righty echo chamber story if you google it, that's what I'm pushing back against, and nobody in this thread is posting anything that contradicts that.

(In response to this post by hoothat)

Posted: 05/06/2018 at 09:57AM

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Current Thread:

That Silver Tongued Devil is speaking now ** -- 757 05/04/2018 2:37PM

Here is a good one from today: -- hooshouse 05/04/2018 3:07PM

You're right, no one has even put forth a bill -- hoothat 05/04/2018 9:46PM

Try reading the line again. Then think about it real hard. ** -- hooyorkcity 05/04/2018 9:59PM

I did. -- hoothat 05/04/2018 10:11PM

Jesus you’re daft. Try reading the line again. You can do this. ** -- hooyorkcity 05/04/2018 10:14PM

Which part is the problem -- hoothat 05/04/2018 10:20PM

You’re not getting what makes that line so funny. That’s not surprising. ** -- hooyorkcity 05/04/2018 10:25PM

Oh I get what YOU think is funny -- hoothat 05/04/2018 10:32PM

"Intentionally obtuse"? Hello pot, meet kettle. ** -- VAGentleman05 05/05/2018 2:00PM

Ahhh, you decided to join the discussion. cute ** -- hoothat 05/05/2018 6:43PM

You’re under seige! And not under seige! ** -- hooyorkcity 05/05/2018 6:53PM

You clearly are a real deep thinker... -- hoothat 05/05/2018 8:32PM

Is this the rapier wit your friends tell you you’re so good at? -- hooyorkcity 05/05/2018 8:44PM

What's funny is... -- hoothat 05/05/2018 8:46PM

True that, hoothat. Have a good rest of the weekend. ** -- hooyorkcity 05/05/2018 8:48PM

“Both states happening simultaneously.” Heh. Good one. -- hooyorkcity 05/04/2018 11:01PM

If you are going to quote me atleast be accurate. ** -- hoothat 05/05/2018 02:21AM

If you’re going to whine about my quoting of you at least have a reason. -- hooyorkcity 05/05/2018 05:22AM

You went to UVA? -- hoothat 05/05/2018 11:03AM

I just have to sit here and shake my head at how silly you are. -- hooyorkcity 05/05/2018 11:48AM

I just asked you to quote me accurately -- hoothat 05/05/2018 11:53AM

Ok let’s delve into the long version of this -- hooyorkcity 05/05/2018 12:09PM

But that isn't what he said hooyork -- hoothat 05/05/2018 12:44PM

I already told you I know exactly what he was trying to say. -- hooyorkcity 05/05/2018 1:35PM

I didn't get upset, I corrected you. -- hoothat 05/05/2018 1:54PM

No what you did was exactly what you’re accusing everybody else of: -- hooyorkcity 05/05/2018 2:08PM

And yet when I expanded on my thought -- hoothat 05/05/2018 6:42PM

Yeah that’s not how the thread went. You just got pissed and made a lame -- hooyorkcity 05/05/2018 6:48PM

...I wasn't upset... -- hoothat 05/05/2018 8:30PM

You really are like your hero. Everybody else is doing what you are. -- hooyorkcity 05/05/2018 8:40PM

Lol. it was intentional. -- hoothat 05/05/2018 8:45PM

That moron wiped the floor with you last election -- TomKazanski 05/04/2018 11:04PM

“Wiped the floor” “landslide” -- hooyorkcity 05/04/2018 11:12PM

Largest crowd ever . . . . -- HokieDelNorte 05/04/2018 11:17PM

Most popular President ever at this point. -- hooyorkcity 05/04/2018 11:26PM

And his robust good health, historic! ** -- southdenverhoo 05/05/2018 1:54PM

And don’t forget the best brain! ** -- hooyorkcity 05/05/2018 2:38PM

And the best words! ** -- Hoo TV 05/05/2018 5:27PM

Would rather have a guy who gets stuff done -- Simeon 05/04/2018 2:59PM

Fortunately, we had both with Obama. -- DanTheFan 05/05/2018 09:04AM

You misspelled Reagan :) ** -- Simeon 05/05/2018 09:18AM

Does this really mean anything? -- BonsackHoo 05/04/2018 5:37PM

Foreign policy also takes some time to fully evaluate -- 757 05/04/2018 8:24PM

Those are generally my views -- BonsackHoo 05/04/2018 8:49PM

It seems like all of you have policy disagreements. -- BonsackHoo 05/04/2018 7:12PM

Responding to yourself? -- hoothat 05/04/2018 8:04PM

So Obama did nothing? -- BonsackHoo 05/04/2018 8:46PM

Oh, so you're just to lazy to respond individually -- hoothat 05/04/2018 9:02PM

Still waiting for your copy and paste. Or can’t you figure it out? ** -- BonsackHoo 05/04/2018 9:03PM

? Are you used to people doing your work because you told them to? -- hoothat 05/04/2018 9:05PM

Did you fall into a bottle last night? -- wahoo138 05/05/2018 10:37AM

He asked me to cut and paste his reply -- hoothat 05/05/2018 11:04AM

South China Sea was a failure under Obama. -- Lupos 05/04/2018 8:51PM

Have you been following this thread? -- BonsackHoo 05/04/2018 8:58PM

You are flailing. -- hoothat 05/04/2018 9:04PM

No, it was not consensus on exiting Iraq. -- ryno hoo 05/04/2018 7:02PM

Please tell you are not using Iran deal as an example -- TomKazanski 05/04/2018 6:38PM

Hindsight? -- hoothat 05/04/2018 6:32PM

Presidents don’t get credit for good intentions -- Simeon 05/04/2018 6:30PM

We’ll see how much gets done when he doesn’t have both houses in his camp ** -- hooyorkcity 05/04/2018 5:29PM

You mean if. Did you learn anything from '16? ** -- Lupos 05/04/2018 6:37PM

The comment was more of a retort as to why not much got done in the past 6 -- hooyorkcity 05/04/2018 7:38PM

I wish it were simply about lack of eloquence. -- hoolstoptheheels 05/04/2018 4:32PM

Name lie that effects people as much as the you will save -- TomKazanski 05/04/2018 5:17PM

Tax cuts will be revenue neutral. ** -- 81_Hokie 05/04/2018 8:02PM

You think tax cuts hurt people? -- TomKazanski 05/04/2018 8:59PM

The people that have to pay it back. ** -- 81_Hokie 05/04/2018 9:51PM

Liberals are going to confiscate everyone's guns? Yeah, sure. -- hoolstoptheheels 05/04/2018 5:52PM

I normally agree with a lot you have to say -- hoothat 05/04/2018 9:44PM

Liberals would do that in a second. -- ryno hoo 05/04/2018 7:11PM

I'm sure you can point to some. But that's not the real endgame -- hoolstoptheheels 05/04/2018 7:20PM

Umm....You should talk to Boca -- hoothat 05/04/2018 8:06PM

I only want to confiscate your gun capable of firing 45 rounds per minute -- BocaHoo91 05/04/2018 8:57PM

Heh, good stuff. -- hooyorkcity 05/05/2018 06:07AM

They just look scary -- Hoo TV 05/05/2018 07:14AM

Lol, exactly. Take note Hoolstop. -- hoothat 05/04/2018 9:01PM

Sounds like he wants to ban semi auto assault style rifles. -- hoolstoptheheels 05/05/2018 08:07AM

Umm no. -- hoothat 05/05/2018 11:08AM

So what? I agree with him. Apparenty that would be too much of an -- 111Balz 05/05/2018 9:59PM

I don't own firearms. -- hoothat 05/06/2018 12:07AM

I think there is a persistent tendency for parties to the gun debate to -- hoolstoptheheels 05/06/2018 09:57AM

Well we have had a long going debate -- hoothat 05/06/2018 10:46AM

Ok, let's assume that's true. -- hoolstoptheheels 05/06/2018 11:06AM

You do have a need to be seen as "right", don't you? -- 111Balz 05/06/2018 09:37AM

Lol, be right? -- hoothat 05/06/2018 10:48AM

Well, I'm sure Boca can state his own views. -- hoolstoptheheels 05/05/2018 11:38AM

Understood -- hoothat 05/06/2018 12:05AM

So far on Russia more fake than real news has been reported. 99% of the -- TomKazanski 05/04/2018 6:36PM

No that is not true. The investigation into Russia is ongoing, not untrue. -- hoolstoptheheels 05/04/2018 7:11PM

Do you need to see the obama 2500 video -- TomKazanski 05/04/2018 8:56PM

'Mornin Tom! Forgive me, I didn't immediately recognize the "but Obama"! -- hoolstoptheheels 05/05/2018 07:52AM

So Obama’s is a misstatement of fact not a lie -- TomKazanski 05/05/2018 08:59AM

At the time Obama said it, he thought it was true. But some things changed -- 111Balz 05/05/2018 2:14PM

Sure, just wondering if I'll ever see a valid comparison. -- hoolstoptheheels 05/05/2018 09:14AM

Critical thinking in your eyes is calling obama aca discussions mistatement -- TomKazanski 05/05/2018 09:45AM

Yeah Tom, none of that is about my point -- hoolstoptheheels 05/05/2018 10:19AM

Yea I get your point but in order for it to actually be valid -- TomKazanski 05/05/2018 11:38AM

To paraphrase, you get my point, but it's easier to ignore it when -- hoolstoptheheels 05/05/2018 11:55AM

Sorry your rationalizations of Obama’s lie as political bs is weak sauce -- TomKazanski 05/05/2018 12:19PM

Your post is 100% bullshit. sorry BTTTS ** -- 111Balz 05/05/2018 2:15PM

Other than picking and choosing what religious laws you prefer, like -- ryno hoo 05/04/2018 8:03PM

No, that's just your politics showing. We probably have very different -- hoolstoptheheels 05/05/2018 08:27AM

Why don't working Americans care about the truth? -- HptHokie 05/04/2018 5:28PM

They don’t care about crowd size lies they care about policies -- TomKazanski 05/04/2018 6:41PM

Why can’t working Americans know the difference between effect and affect? -- hooyorkcity 05/04/2018 5:34PM

When I was a young man and forgot to wrap, I effected a person. Shen, Jr., -- Shenhoo 05/04/2018 5:37PM

Speculation on the gun confiscation? -- BonsackHoo 05/04/2018 5:27PM

Sorry I am not here 24/7 -- hoothat 05/04/2018 6:21PM

Name the stuff ** -- hooshouse 05/04/2018 3:01PM

ISIS routed, Korean War nearly over, -- Simeon 05/04/2018 3:14PM

Trump had nothing to do with black unemployment levels. Just what policies -- Hooooooooooooooo 05/04/2018 10:16PM

Economic growth is up since Trump took office -- Simeon 05/05/2018 08:14AM

So the rules of engagement were changed so that innocent civilians -- Hooooooooooooooo 05/05/2018 11:48AM

We've seen the "Korean War nearly over" stuff before. -- HowieT3 05/04/2018 4:20PM

Fair points. I agree there’s work left to do. ** -- Simeon 05/04/2018 4:28PM

I have no idea how you guys post unemployment numbers with a straight face -- hooshouse 05/04/2018 3:52PM

You’re right. Let’s get back to Hope Hicks, Scooter Libby -- Simeon 05/04/2018 4:06PM

You can see from his response why he doesn’t want to talk about issues ** -- TomKazanski 05/04/2018 4:43PM

I'm good with more Hope Hicks! Just sayin'. ** -- Hoodafan 05/04/2018 4:10PM

You know Miller tried so hard. ** -- hooshouse 05/04/2018 4:15PM

There's a HUGH difference in how Obama and Presidente Maximo Spanky ... -- HowieT3 05/04/2018 4:05PM

Gotcha. That sounds terrible. ** -- hooshouse 05/04/2018 4:09PM

...SMH -- hoothat 05/04/2018 9:39PM

Welp...there were plenty of dire and apocalyptical warnings being forwarded -- Tuckahokie 05/04/2018 4:02PM

27 months? ** -- BonsackHoo 05/04/2018 5:29PM

That's what happens when I try to post when the drive through line is busy ** -- Tuckahokie 05/04/2018 6:10PM

I thought you skimped on my fries too! ** -- Shenhoo 05/04/2018 8:08PM

Ugh. don't do it ** -- hoothat 05/04/2018 6:34PM

We haven't all died bar. lol ** -- hooshouse 05/04/2018 4:16PM

It’s not 27 months. Just feels like it. ** -- fphoo 05/04/2018 4:05PM

From Victor Davis Hanson: -- JMHoo 05/04/2018 3:23PM

Hanson luvvved that Iraq War. Does he have it up to get our kids -- Shenhoo 05/04/2018 5:38PM

From Rich Lowry: -- JMHoo 05/04/2018 3:26PM

Ending net nutrality is not a positive nor is opening up ANWR nor is more -- Hooooooooooooooo 05/04/2018 10:29PM

Which one will become Presidente Maximo Spanky's ... -- HowieT3 05/04/2018 4:24PM