The Soapbox

Joined: 09/19/2008 Posts: 3846
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The appellate court's opinion makes clear they think Cannon was very wrong

There really isn't a gray area here. Cannon was simply making things up with her opinion. A panel with a majority of very conservative Trump appointees wasn't shy in writing footnotes and comments in the opinion that make clear how nonsensical they think her arguments were. The only court left to appeal to for Trump is the Supreme Court, where I don't expect the outcome to be much different. Maybe Thomas or Alito want to wave their Trumpist flags, but I expect that appeal will be denied as well.

To answer your question from the other post, the point is they AREN'T ALLOWED to review the documents at this stage. Trump hasn't been indicted yet. Nobody else in the American legal system would be allowed to do so. Cannon's legal reasoning, such as it was, would basically flip the entire investigative process on its head if it was applied uniformly to all suspects who have warrants executed against them. Trump chose to appeal for a special master when there was no legal precedent to say he deserved one. She just made up a reason for him that amounts to saying former Presidents are entitled to special treatment (never mind Trump has already gotten a ton of latitude from DOJ for the past 9 months). DOJ chose not to fight the battle on all fronts and limit their appeals to the classified documents so they could continue to conduct their national security investigation, but they would've been justified in appealing the whole decision and I think they would've won that too.

Beyond that legal reasoning, Trump's lawyers may not have seen the documents, but one would hope that Trump knows what classified records he had in his own house. He supposedly declassified them after all. They have avoided actually asserting that he did declassify them because he can't honestly say in court that he did. The special master said as much in the hearing on Tuesday. They're playing footsie with the idea that the documents might've been declassified, but not actually asserting that they were. The documents have classified markings on them, DOJ says they're classified, and Trump's team isn't actually contesting that claim. As the judge said, you can't have your cake and eat it too here. Trump claiming that he declassified all documents he took to MAL would be enough for the lawyers to make an argument to the judge, but Trump would be on the hook if he was lying. I'll leave the logical extension of Trump's unwillingness to claim they were declassified to you.

I'm on the road the rest of the day, so I'll leave the last word to you. Cheers!

(In response to this post by Los Angeles Hoo)

Posted: 09/22/2022 at 07:51AM

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Current Thread:

2 Trump and 1 Obama judge issue a STAY of Cannons decision related to -- HooAskedYou 09/21/2022 7:31PM

Deep State witch hunt!!! ** -- Hoo TV 09/22/2022 03:44AM

A complete smackdown. That’s that ** -- wahoo138 09/21/2022 10:15PM

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The legal bills only matter to someone who intends to pay ** -- CAVern 09/22/2022 07:58AM

This is a primary reason why Trump might be a better option than… -- Los Angeles Hoo 09/21/2022 9:24PM

Clown post ** -- 111Balz 09/22/2022 08:21AM

The process is the penalty = the cruelty is the point! ** -- ryno hoo 09/21/2022 10:35PM

Power is the point. ** -- Los Angeles Hoo 09/21/2022 10:57PM

Shit is running out of your every orifice, LA ** -- WaxHoo 09/21/2022 10:32PM

Does it ever enter your mind that he might be guilty? -- Plano Hoo 09/21/2022 9:31PM

Being so mean to Orange Jesus ** -- Hoo TV 09/22/2022 04:39AM

Taking presidential records ** -- Plano Hoo 09/21/2022 9:39PM

Of what, specifically? ** -- Los Angeles Hoo 09/21/2022 9:39PM

As a starter, NY AG civil suit is 200 pages long. -- DanTheFan 09/21/2022 11:22PM

Baghdad Bill Barr pleads, "Think of the (Trump) children (echoed by -- Hoo TV 09/22/2022 05:36AM

Old enough to get an office in the White House -- DanTheFan 09/22/2022 08:11AM

See above ** -- Plano Hoo 09/21/2022 9:40PM

Of course, it’s possible. It’s just highly unlikely given… -- Los Angeles Hoo 09/21/2022 10:03PM

LOLZ! Your fullofshitness is off the charts, LA ** -- WaxHoo 09/21/2022 10:33PM

The facts of him having classified materials at this house? ** -- HoodatB 09/21/2022 10:07PM

The facts are that they found presidential records, including classified -- Plano Hoo 09/21/2022 10:06PM

It is literally in dispute. There is an actual court case in which… -- Los Angeles Hoo 09/21/2022 10:09PM

Is your argument that the classified documents belong to him or -- Plano Hoo 09/21/2022 10:14PM

With the caveat that… -- Los Angeles Hoo 09/21/2022 10:48PM

My God, man. The extent to which you’ll make obviously -- SixerHoo 09/22/2022 07:10AM

You are just wrong. Read page 19 of the ruling and the presidential -- Plano Hoo 09/22/2022 06:23AM

LA is usually wrong but never in doubt. ** -- SixerHoo 09/22/2022 06:34AM

They absolutely took apart Cannon's legal reasoning, such as it was. -- CMUHoo 09/21/2022 8:23PM

Duke undergrad, Michigan law, Federalist Society. Need we say more? ** -- NJHoo 09/21/2022 11:05PM

I have read there are Trump appointed judges and Trumpist judges. Big -- HooAskedYou 09/21/2022 8:38PM

LMAO ** -- HoodatB 09/21/2022 10:08PM

Hey, LA Hoo. Suck it. ** -- WaxHoo 09/21/2022 7:45PM

I’m surprised you can find room for me… -- Los Angeles Hoo 09/21/2022 8:34PM

Oh. I see. So you're "just asking questions". -- HowieT3 09/21/2022 10:00PM

I’m offended by that, as I… -- Los Angeles Hoo 09/21/2022 10:06PM

You blow, LA. ** -- WaxHoo 09/21/2022 10:34PM

“One side is demanding transparency” is that what you think he’s doing? -- Plano Hoo 09/21/2022 9:09PM

No. He. Is. Not. ** -- WaxHoo 09/21/2022 9:10PM

You’re full of shit. Like ten pounds crammed into a five pound bag** -- WaxHoo 09/21/2022 8:56PM

I didn't realize transparency was expected in FBI investigations -- CMUHoo 09/21/2022 8:45PM

The case hinges on the status of the documents. No one… -- Los Angeles Hoo 09/21/2022 8:59PM

About that status argument. As I have said many times, it’s irrelevant -- Plano Hoo 09/21/2022 9:22PM

Exactly ** -- 111Balz 09/22/2022 08:15AM

They're desperate to make it all about Trump's mystical -- Hoo TV 09/22/2022 06:58AM

And as I have said many times, you have… -- Los Angeles Hoo 09/21/2022 9:31PM

Seriously, read the 11th circuit opinion -- CMUHoo 09/21/2022 10:10PM

I have read it, and as I have stated previously…. -- Los Angeles Hoo 09/22/2022 12:20AM

As they point ot in the ruling, even if declassified they're still not his -- CMUHoo 09/22/2022 12:59AM

That is their presumption, but as the district court pointed out… -- Los Angeles Hoo 09/22/2022 01:24AM

The judges who wrote this did. ** -- Plano Hoo 09/21/2022 9:34PM

Did what? ** -- Los Angeles Hoo 09/21/2022 9:41PM

Have seen “ the record” ** -- Plano Hoo 09/21/2022 9:44PM

No, they have not. They have seen… -- Los Angeles Hoo 09/21/2022 10:13PM

How would that change the analysis if they did review the documents? ** -- Plano Hoo 09/21/2022 10:22PM

I’m not sure it would, but you are the one who… -- Los Angeles Hoo 09/21/2022 11:16PM

Then why did the 11th circuit issue a stay on the classified docs? -- CMUHoo 09/21/2022 11:25PM

Because there is a lot of grey area in legal cases, and… -- Los Angeles Hoo 09/22/2022 01:29AM

The appellate court's opinion makes clear they think Cannon was very wrong -- CMUHoo 09/22/2022 07:51AM

They don’t need to see that. Trump does not have a possessory interest in -- Plano Hoo 09/21/2022 10:18PM

Seems to me that the President at the time — Trump — is the one who… -- Los Angeles Hoo 09/21/2022 11:02PM

Again, that's not how this works -- CMUHoo 09/21/2022 11:05PM

You’re wasting your breath ** -- WaxHoo 09/21/2022 10:35PM

No it doesn’t. See the 29 page order debunking Canon’s trash ruling -- WahooMatt05 09/21/2022 9:07PM

And, as the 11th circuit noted -- CMUHoo 09/21/2022 9:02PM

You’re full of shit. Suck it.** -- WaxHoo 09/21/2022 9:02PM

Sure ** -- FxHoo 09/21/2022 8:42PM

Why would they persecute someone who had his documents stolen by the FBI? ** -- ryno hoo 09/21/2022 7:40PM

If you've been 'persecuted' close to 1,500 times, chances are that's a... -- LonghornHokie 09/21/2022 10:16PM

LMAOZ. "His" ** -- HoodatB 09/21/2022 10:09PM

Raises hand….because they aren’t his, Alex. ** -- Plano Hoo 09/21/2022 9:13PM

They aren't. They weren't. ** -- DanTheFan 09/21/2022 9:13PM

Cuz he’s a gaping asshole ** -- WaxHoo 09/21/2022 7:41PM

Order being restored. “Loose” Cannon schooled x2** -- WaxHoo 09/21/2022 7:39PM

Does Alito overturn this now or wait one hour? ** -- WahooMatt05 09/21/2022 7:33PM

Its mass somewhere on earth..... ** -- Zhoo 09/21/2022 8:25PM

Depends on whether he's off on another grievance speech tour. ** -- Seattle .Hoo 09/21/2022 7:44PM