The Soapbox

Joined: 01/04/2001 Posts: 27029
Likes: 34309

What's this?

If he is - my message to him is - don't punch.

I have to say, I have been mighty pissed about this. This weekend reminded me of 911. Just in the way I was glued to the 24/7 news channels on Saturday, although thankfully the violence did not continue for days, like I feared. I was floored by it.

All the equivocation, trying apparently to avoid any criticism of Trump, really gets under my skin. Especially given the long, long history of racial strife in this country. So on the one hand, I have no sympathy for those who seize on the violent responses from the anti-racist side to try to lump everyone together, as His Orangeness did until the political pressure forced his tepid turnabout. In ways that nobody - not Trump or anyone else - would be doing if the haters were Muslims claiming affiliation with ISIS or AQ. But if you happen to be a Nazi or KKK, you were pushed into the violence by all those awful people who attacked you. Or threatened to attack you.

Punching Kessler plays into that. It plays into spreading chaos, and chaos helps the haters. Whether Islamic or white supremacists, the more chaos and violence there is, the more emboldened they are. That doesn't excuse the bullshit equivocation we've seen far too much of, but tactically, it also isn't helpful.

Restraint would be helpful. Put the racists in very stark relief to the rest of us by not throwing batteries at them. I recently saw a thing about the Civil Rights movement in the early '60s, with a video of pretty stringent training for protesters to avoid violent responses no matter what. With some pretty tough role playing in the training sessions.

Those looking to counter the racists should take a hard look at that approach.

(In response to this post by TpkeHoo)

Posted: 08/15/2017 at 11:20AM

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Current Thread:

Was the old man punching Kessler a poster on here? ** -- TpkeHoo 08/15/2017 10:57AM

Where did this spring from? ** -- hoothat 08/15/2017 11:38AM

If he is - my message to him is - don't punch. -- hoolstoptheheels 08/15/2017 11:20AM

The minute a counter-protester crosses the line into violence -- Hokie5150 08/15/2017 11:50AM

It does play into their hands. -- hoolstoptheheels 08/15/2017 12:23PM

We aren't sure who instigated the violence. We would -- Hokieesith 08/15/2017 12:50PM

Unbelievable for anyone but your twisted self. -- Hoocinogenic 08/15/2017 1:58PM

That's incorrect by a mile. If that is the case, what you advocate -- Hokieesith 08/15/2017 2:35PM

That's just a pure, simple, steaming pile of cow dung. -- hoolstoptheheels 08/15/2017 4:00PM

No it's not. Instigation of violence starts with violence. ** -- Hokieesith 08/15/2017 4:13PM

You would not have that question if these were AQ sympathizers, would you. -- hoolstoptheheels 08/15/2017 1:03PM

You're wrong. Whoverer threw the first punch started it. -- Hokieesith 08/15/2017 1:08PM

Yeah those antifa had the temerity to throw their bodies against that Dodge -- KaHOOnah 08/15/2017 2:04PM

You know what else is telling? The reaction to the police deaths -- Fuzzy Dunlop 08/15/2017 2:37PM

You changed the argument. We are talking about the instigators -- Hokieesith 08/15/2017 2:34PM

I barely eked out 2nd grade. It was a big moment for me. Good one. ** -- KaHOOnah 08/15/2017 2:41PM

Americans attacking this group called "Antifa". -- hoolstoptheheels 08/15/2017 2:18PM

It's an opinion. A minority opinion by all accounts. -- hoolstoptheheels 08/15/2017 1:57PM

I didn't vote for Trump and don't care. -- Hokieesith 08/15/2017 2:38PM

No, you're wrong. I am emotional. And more intensely -- hoolstoptheheels 08/15/2017 3:20PM

They just arrested a counter protestor type who assaulted a reporter -- KCHoo 08/15/2017 12:35PM

With no distinction based on their purpose for being there. ** -- hoolstoptheheels 08/15/2017 12:40PM

Yes. the law is the law. ** -- KCHoo 08/15/2017 12:48PM

Lot of people on both sides were looking for a fight. -- jdubforwahoowa 08/15/2017 12:45PM

I certainly agree that the statue was an afterthought in the end. -- hoolstoptheheels 08/15/2017 1:59PM

On side created this event, and marched with torches through the -- 111Balz 08/15/2017 12:51PM

Thanks for the clarification. ** -- jdubforwahoowa 08/15/2017 12:52PM

It's important to ID the villian and resist the "both/many" sides BS -- 111Balz 08/15/2017 12:58PM

Who were the villains in Seattle the next day? (link) -- JMHoo 08/15/2017 1:06PM

Sounds like a mostly peaceful counter protest was marred by some -- 111Balz 08/15/2017 1:15PM

Were you physically at either the July 8th event or Saturday's event? -- jdubforwahoowa 08/15/2017 1:06PM

This is so dumb. The "you're just as bad as they are if" argument.... -- SchmHoo 08/15/2017 11:53AM

I think what's most galling about the rampant Whataboutism... -- Fuzzy Dunlop 08/15/2017 2:49PM

When you use violence to prevent someone from -- Hokie5150 08/15/2017 12:10PM

They're wrong. They're giving cover to those who want to soften -- hoolstoptheheels 08/15/2017 12:40PM

The peaceful counter protesters are heroes and should be applauded for -- Hokie5150 08/15/2017 12:45PM

This is off the charts, even for you. ** -- SchmHoo 08/15/2017 12:22PM

So, you approve of using force to shut down free speech? -- Hokie5150 08/15/2017 12:34PM

You all act like full equivocation and complete approval of -- hoolstoptheheels 08/15/2017 12:57PM

If the hate groups over the weekend were Muslim, my feelings would be -- Hokie5150 08/15/2017 1:01PM

I see no reason to doubt you. -- hoolstoptheheels 08/15/2017 2:07PM

This is correct. ** -- Hokieesith 08/15/2017 1:12PM

Yes, he does. ** -- Hokieesith 08/15/2017 12:45PM

No. Any questions on what I actually posted? ** -- SchmHoo 08/15/2017 12:37PM

For what other speech is it allowable for those who oppose to -- Hokie5150 08/15/2017 12:53PM

You don't think shutting down free speech is repulsive? ** -- hoothat 08/15/2017 11:56AM

You'll need to explain how his free speech was shut down. ** -- SchmHoo 08/15/2017 12:01PM

Is this a serious question? ** -- hoothat 08/15/2017 12:18PM

Yep ** -- SchmHoo 08/15/2017 12:19PM

Really? Good luck to you. ** -- hoothat 08/15/2017 12:22PM

Great answer ** -- SchmHoo 08/15/2017 12:23PM

Using intimidation to stop speech you do not like -- hoothat 08/15/2017 12:30PM

You clearly have no clue what the 1st Amendment protects -- CyberHoo78 08/15/2017 12:44PM

That wasn't a tactic of the Brown Shirts? ** -- hoothat 08/15/2017 1:32PM

Not to confuse the issue but intimidation can take any number of forms..... -- Chuck Taylor 08/15/2017 12:38PM

You don't understand what free speech is. Got it. ** -- SchmHoo 08/15/2017 12:35PM

I absolutely do -- hoothat 08/15/2017 1:35PM

Seriously? Beating down those with opinions with which you disagree -- Hokie5150 08/15/2017 12:12PM

At what point would you have advocated taking -- walkthecorner 08/15/2017 12:23PM

When they actually started harming others and/or violating the -- Hokie5150 08/15/2017 12:35PM

By then it might have been too late. ** -- walkthecorner 08/15/2017 12:42PM

Everybody in Charlottesville seems to be OK how Kessler's presser went -- jdubforwahoowa 08/15/2017 12:39PM

He had no permit to do that, and people had every right to boo -- 111Balz 08/15/2017 12:55PM

Ya scared me with that post. -- jdubforwahoowa 08/15/2017 1:03PM

No, but you don't seem to understand what free speech means either. -- WahooRQ 08/15/2017 12:20PM

I understand it quite well. Using force (whether it is by a government -- Hokie5150 08/15/2017 12:40PM

I don't think you do. And you can probably add "fascist" to the list of -- WahooRQ 08/15/2017 1:33PM

"violent suppression of the opposition"...the very definition of -- Hokie5150 08/15/2017 1:38PM

Good lord you're dense. -- WahooRQ 08/15/2017 2:00PM

What do you think "forcible suppression of opposition" means? ** -- hoothat 08/15/2017 2:03PM

I think it means an autocratic government forcibly suppressing opposition. -- WahooRQ 08/15/2017 2:05PM

I said it was a fascist act. It is. It is the very definition of such an -- Hokie5150 08/15/2017 5:01PM

Any time opposition is forcibly oppressed = fascism. You dumb, RQ ** -- KaHOOnah 08/15/2017 2:44PM

Where did I say that, you habitually assuming so and so. ** -- SchmHoo 08/15/2017 12:20PM

.** -- SchmHoo 08/15/2017 12:18PM

As usual, an excellent post HSH. ** -- Lazarus 08/15/2017 11:37AM

Are Kessler and Spencer posters here? ** -- NJHoo 08/15/2017 11:03AM

They just lurk. -- jdubforwahoowa 08/15/2017 11:32AM

And Recruit ** -- TpkeHoo 08/15/2017 12:22PM

Almost certain. Betting one of them has a wingman named Slider. ** -- WahooRQ 08/15/2017 11:06AM

Now that you mention it... I can think of a few candidates. ** -- HoosWillWin 08/15/2017 11:06AM