The Soapbox

Joined: 01/04/2001 Posts: 27030
Likes: 34310

What's this?

If I'm the dems, I'm not jumping straight to impeachment.

I'd be going to the courts today to get the whistleblower complaint released. I see no good reason to delay on that. That is the most disturbing aspect of all this - the way Trump is so blatantly flouting the most basic, fundamental constitutional concept of checks and balances.

Which effort helps demonstrate the authoritarian nature of the current pres, and what a second term could mean with this guy. But my calculation on impeachment remains the same - unless impeaching Trump assists in removing him from power, it is the wrong move. This is not a move to be made based on principle, a position with which I know many of my fellow anti-trumpies disagree with me.

If Trump is impeached and acquitted and then re-elected, the impeachment is worse than a waste of time. It would achieve the opposite of the goals of Americans against Trumpistan. It would reinforce the things that make the US under Trump Trumpistan. On the other hand, once we see and can investigate whatever the complaint actually says, the wisdom of impeachment (or not) should be much more clear.

For those of us who still value the Constitutional controls against authoritarianism, the only calculation is: what creates the greatest odds that Trump will not be pres on 1/20/21. And depending on one's views of Pence and his likelihood of simply continuing Trump's dark nationalism, impeachment may not be wise at all. It might just be a lashing out that makes us feel better short term.

(In response to this post by Hfbyrd)

Posted: 09/23/2019 at 08:46AM

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Current Thread:

IMPEACH THE DESPOT ** -- Hfbyrd 09/23/2019 07:18AM

The Senate won't do it ** -- Technocrat 09/23/2019 09:48AM

The Senate won’t convict, but the House can still impeach -- WahooMatt05 09/23/2019 10:13AM

And it will accomplish nothing ** -- Technocrat 09/23/2019 10:14AM

Not really. It'll make Trump more sympathetic ** -- wahoo138 09/23/2019 10:16AM

Going to completely disagree here. It will energize the core democratic -- HooAskedYou 09/23/2019 1:57PM

Trump’s Team Is Trying To Stop Impeachment Before It Starts (Link) -- BonsackHoo 09/23/2019 10:35AM

Well he has to go through the motions of not wanting it -- wahoo138 09/23/2019 10:43AM

I think his behind the scenes actions reveal his true preferences ** -- BonsackHoo 09/23/2019 10:58AM

I doubt he knows what either hand is doing behind his back honestly ** -- wahoo138 09/23/2019 11:23AM

Yeah his actions depend on changing his Depends, Fox news and Twitter ** -- Technocrat 09/23/2019 11:32AM

I think you are too negative on Warren. -- Shenhoo 09/23/2019 10:49AM

Maybe, but I think I've seen this movie already -- wahoo138 09/23/2019 10:54AM

They are two very different candidates ** -- WahooMatt05 09/23/2019 10:59AM

True. Hillary's politics were much more in line with the nation at large ** -- wahoo138 09/23/2019 11:05AM

Hillary is also uncharismatic and ran horrible campaign. I don't think -- JohnHoo2 09/23/2019 11:12AM

Charisma is in the eyes of the beholder (look at President Trump) but she -- BonsackHoo 09/23/2019 11:34AM

Warren is just as mockable which is really all that matters -- wahoo138 09/23/2019 11:22AM

Conservatives will vote for a woman in a national election -- hooshouse 09/23/2019 11:27AM

Wow, too funny in a sick friggin way -- VaTechie 09/23/2019 12:07PM

This would be funny if it weren'ty true. Just look at the steady stream of -- Hooooooooooooooo 09/23/2019 11:59AM

They like Tulsi too -- wahoo138 09/23/2019 11:30AM

I don’t like her chances either ** -- hooshouse 09/23/2019 11:32AM

She definitely had/has sexual energy, Warren not so much** -- Technocrat 09/23/2019 11:29AM

So women can’t win? Is that your point? ** -- BonsackHoo 09/23/2019 10:57AM

Is that really what you think I'm saying? ** -- wahoo138 09/23/2019 10:57AM

A photo of her and Clinton is your entire argument so far. The only things -- BonsackHoo 09/23/2019 11:01AM

I'm still not buying that. He is already playing the victim card -- WahooMatt05 09/23/2019 10:22AM

Yep, they are afraid of a Pence presidency (no matter how long or short). ** -- Guy LeDouche 09/23/2019 10:04AM

That’s really not the reason. ** -- WahooRQ 09/23/2019 10:07AM

No, I think most of them would admit in a quiet moment they'd prefer Pence -- hoolstoptheheels 09/23/2019 10:23AM

I don’t agree with your characterization of Warren or the primary system -- BonsackHoo 09/23/2019 10:41AM

You think Warren is a centrist? -- wahoo138 09/23/2019 11:16AM

Indication of just how raging loony left the board is. When you call Lizzie -- Hoodafan 09/23/2019 11:27AM

It depends on how you define centrism. In our current political system, -- BonsackHoo 09/23/2019 11:21AM

Sure. Good luck with that messaging** -- wahoo138 09/23/2019 11:26AM

I am not a PR person. But her messages of increased prosperity for all -- BonsackHoo 09/23/2019 11:32AM

Well, if roughly 28% of all eligible voters making choices for the entire -- hoolstoptheheels 09/23/2019 10:49AM

Your problem is voter participation. Other than an Australia style -- BonsackHoo 09/23/2019 10:56AM

That's not my problem. My problem is with the lurch to populism on all -- hoolstoptheheels 09/23/2019 11:05AM

Populism is not necessarily bad. The Progressive Era and the New Deal were -- BonsackHoo 09/23/2019 11:14AM

No, Populism is necessarily bad. It may occassionally produce results we -- hoolstoptheheels 09/23/2019 11:22AM

I totally disagree with your history but that is a side debate. The only -- BonsackHoo 09/23/2019 11:28AM

Well, we're even, because I totally disagree with your view of -- hoolstoptheheels 09/23/2019 12:03PM

You are absolutely right that democracy can be used to harm minorities. -- BonsackHoo 09/23/2019 1:48PM

Trust me, this is an academic argument. I am supporting the dem nominee -- hoolstoptheheels 09/23/2019 1:58PM

Thanks for the laugh, you think Warren is a centrist ? ** -- TomKazanski 09/23/2019 10:47AM

You're not terrified by the political force that is Mike Pence?? ** -- wahoo138 09/23/2019 10:17AM

Mueller testified to Congress the day before Trump called the Ukrainian -- hooshouse 09/23/2019 09:00AM

So what? -- wahoo138 09/23/2019 09:25AM

I thought investigations were good. I'm so confused ** -- HokieDan95 09/23/2019 10:03AM

It would be nice to leave a country and a world in better shape than we -- hooshouse 09/23/2019 09:32AM

Oh well that's just fucking adorable -- wahoo138 09/23/2019 09:46AM

They are gone, and it's not for them -- WahooMatt05 09/23/2019 09:56AM

They probably wouldn't even watch Matt -- wahoo138 09/23/2019 10:05AM

SUCK IT LIBTARDZ!!! *revs up engine on gas guzzling truck while stuffing a -- WahooRQ 09/23/2019 09:56AM

That better have been an Impossible Double Whopper ** -- WahooMatt05 09/23/2019 09:57AM

Why do Impossible Whoppers cost double? Are the trying to fail? ** -- Hoo TV 09/23/2019 11:01AM

Trump is doing his best to destroy our democracy -- WahooMatt05 09/23/2019 09:34AM

He's doing his best to get re-elected -- wahoo138 09/23/2019 10:07AM

Well, that's certainly true. And Trumpies are perfectly okay with that, too ** -- Hoo TV 09/23/2019 11:03AM

LOL ** -- ryno hoo 09/23/2019 08:56AM

If I'm the dems, I'm not jumping straight to impeachment. -- hoolstoptheheels 09/23/2019 08:46AM

I say if this doesn't work we just keep looking!! ** -- HokieDan95 09/23/2019 09:07AM

Checks and balances is a myth that has been thoroughly exposed -- wahoo138 09/23/2019 09:02AM

Trump Pansies don’t believe in Democracy. They want a dictator who they -- WahooRQ 09/23/2019 09:58AM

We most certainly do not know impeachment strengthens Trump's support -- WahooMatt05 09/23/2019 09:29AM

Collins and Murkowski will pause and look serious and say they will -- 81_Hokie 09/23/2019 09:44AM

Yeah, I wouldn't count on any Rs doing anything but falling in line ** -- Hoo TV 09/23/2019 11:07AM

They did help save Obamacare, and they should get credit for that. -- WahooMatt05 09/23/2019 09:50AM

If you know what's good for you, you will bend the knee!! ** -- HokieDan95 09/23/2019 09:11AM

I'd rather just tune out. I'm pretty sure at this point he wins again -- wahoo138 09/23/2019 09:13AM

I think you’re really, really wrong about Warren’s chances, -- southdenverhoo 09/23/2019 10:55AM

I had $600 that said Donald Trump would never win a national election. -- hoolstoptheheels 09/23/2019 09:53AM

Call it dramatic if you want. I think the guys incensed about no impeachmen -- wahoo138 09/23/2019 10:14AM

Which is not a crystal ball. I think some of us, me included, are tacking -- hoolstoptheheels 09/23/2019 10:27AM

No, checks and balances are not myth. If they were, Trump would already -- hoolstoptheheels 09/23/2019 09:07AM

Eat Arby’s ** -- hooshouse 09/23/2019 09:06AM

The Acting DNI is in Congress on Thursday -- WahooMatt05 09/23/2019 08:54AM

Okay, have fun. All for show. ** -- Lupos 09/23/2019 07:52AM

He used the office and power of the Presidency for personal gain ** -- WahooMatt05 09/23/2019 08:08AM

Indeed he has but as most politicians do the same his base doesn't care. Of -- Hooooooooooooooo 09/23/2019 12:09PM

It's just Trump taking our politics deeper into the sewer that he loves -- wahoo138 09/23/2019 08:46AM

Hopefully Pelosi wakes up and decides to impeach Trump on this -- WahooMatt05 09/23/2019 08:52AM

The path you are clamoring for is probably the best thing that could happen -- wahoo138 09/23/2019 08:57AM

If a President abuses his office for personal gain, should he be impeached? -- WahooMatt05 09/23/2019 09:03AM

Cheaters win in American politics Matt. Just accept it ** -- wahoo138 09/23/2019 09:09AM

Not always. Harry Reid supported Hillary. ** -- Hoodafan 09/23/2019 09:26AM

So? ** -- 111Balz 09/23/2019 11:15AM

F that. Cheaters have historically won. -- WahooMatt05 09/23/2019 09:21AM

I choose to just accept my cheating overlords -- wahoo138 09/23/2019 09:28AM

Wait, is that your way of saying -- Hoodafan 09/23/2019 11:19AM

Taking a break from giving a shit -- wahoo138 09/23/2019 12:04PM

Yes, and? Look, better off having his ass kicked in the -- Lupos 09/23/2019 08:36AM

If you don’t impeach Trump, who can you impeach? -- WahooMatt05 09/23/2019 08:39AM

Let's look at those reasons. First, I think it is to remove a president so -- hoolstoptheheels 09/23/2019 09:02AM

I agree it needs to go through the process -- WahooMatt05 09/23/2019 09:08AM

40% of our population doesn't care. That is more disturbing than -- HoosWillWin 09/23/2019 08:24AM

That 40% number may be on the high side. -- hoolstoptheheels 09/23/2019 08:29AM

The 40% is probably right if you mean (at least) 40% of the country -- BocaHoo91 09/23/2019 08:52AM

Although even if there is only 25% population is in Trump can do no wrong -- JohnHoo2 09/23/2019 10:55AM

It’s at least 40% of this ridiculous board though ** -- WahooRQ 09/23/2019 09:06AM

I don't know. I think there are 10-15 posters on this board you could -- BocaHoo91 09/23/2019 10:25AM

Hope you are right. ** -- HoosWillWin 09/23/2019 08:45AM