The Soapbox

HAZER

Joined: 09/18/1998 Posts: 2386
Likes: 1975


Well, touche, maybe but by all accounts, that's what I've read.


That being from Southern and Northern historians of renown. My own research in the time I was passionately interested found little to dispute it, either. The sources you cite, good ones, I don't recall saying much bad about Jackson. You'd have to point me to that.

Obviously you've done research and are knowledgeable. I think we'd both agree the Lost Cause is a crock of shit. I think we would find more common ground than not on that subject. I can tell you, I think some of my family members would not like me saying the Lost Cause is a crock of shit, but it is.

However, I, in particular, am a descendent of JEB Stuart, and have almost 20 relatives that fought for the South. I also have a few that fought for the North. What I can tell from family writings is that not all who fought for the South in my family had slaves or agreed with slavery. Some did, some didn't. But they all were united in that they felt the North encroached and invaded them. And they were not going to cede their lands.

I think the number overall is less than 1/3 of Southerners that fought, held slaves. And of that number, there were a few very large outfits but most had a modicum of slaves in their households. This, of course, had been an institution since before the revolution. That doesn't make it okay but I mean, it's basically the norm. And if I put myself in that time, I'm going to defend my land. Hell, I'm going to defend it today. And I might not be down with whatever is going on to make me defend it. It's my home.

So yeah, I agree analysis is a good thing. Opinion is another thing, I've seen a lot of new opinion. Again, I've never heard of Jackson's character denigrated much, or Lee's, or to a lesser extent, Stuart's (he was criticized for having a little too much fun at times) until very recently. Certainly all of those men had flaws, as did Jefferson, as do Trump and Biden today.

Sugarcoating is one thing, like say the Lost Cause. Grinding a political axe for a long dead war against a side that lost and has paid its price in spades, is another. I see some of both but more of the latter, in recent years. My family has fought in every war this country has ever had. A lot of these Confederates' offspring have fought, including many high ranking generals and heroes.

I often wonder how we'd have fared if they had all just packed it in and said we're not gonna fight for the US because we have a disagreement dating back to 1865. It's pretty fucked up to call their ancestors traitors, imo. You didn't do that but I see it all the time, I'd hope you wouldn't. To each his own, of course, but Patton and several Marine commandants were offspring of Southern warriors, to pencil in a very few of many. I think that rhetoric isn't needed in 2020, well over 100 years on and every bit as divisive as say, one loud mouthed orange fuckface. But it's in style, I suppose.

(In response to this post by Mg234)

Posted: 10/30/2020 at 02:00AM



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Current Thread:
 
  
VMI to remove Stonewall Jackson statue. -- DexterLake 10/29/2020 2:52PM
  To some that is making a difference. ** -- Mg234 10/29/2020 11:58PM
  That's not being antislavery. -- DanTheFan 10/29/2020 4:38PM
  I' ** -- HAZER 10/29/2020 11:37PM
  They already are ** -- Mg234 10/30/2020 12:00AM
  Yep...I'm curious how long Mount Rushmore will last ** -- Tuckahokie 10/29/2020 3:44PM
  It had a starring role in "North by Northwest." ** -- Seattle .Hoo 10/29/2020 3:55PM
  Wrong, only Trumpers are robots. ** -- Hoobedoobedoo 10/29/2020 3:40PM
  LOL ** -- hoothat 10/29/2020 4:34PM
  BOT. ** -- Hoobedoobedoo 10/29/2020 4:35PM
  NPC ** -- hoothat 10/29/2020 4:36PM
  Good thing right wingers are free thinkers ** -- HptHokie 10/29/2020 3:35PM
  Edit it double posted** -- Mg234 10/30/2020 12:01AM
  Now that Huhthat has a picture of it, do we need it? -- TomGlansAski 10/29/2020 3:36PM
  Art can be controversial there little Hitler. -- hoothat 10/29/2020 3:38PM
  Pic -- hoothat 10/29/2020 3:30PM
  But was that a white flag in there? Apropos. ;) ** -- Seattle .Hoo 10/29/2020 3:57PM
  Just boys running into death. ** -- hoothat 10/29/2020 3:38PM
  Try to be brave; I can see you are frightened ** -- Quaker 10/29/2020 3:16PM
  Don't care about the Confederate Military Academy. ** -- Seattle .Hoo 10/29/2020 3:11PM
  ROFL ** -- Mg234 10/30/2020 12:03AM
  I weep for our children. -- hooshouse 10/29/2020 3:04PM
  Confederate generals on their way out -- HoodatB 10/29/2020 3:00PM
  Virginian. ** -- hoothat 10/29/2020 3:02PM
  How was it admitted? ** -- hoothat 10/30/2020 12:08AM
  As a State loyal to the Union ** -- Mg234 10/30/2020 12:10AM
  So....explain that... ** -- hoothat 10/30/2020 12:13AM
  Maybe? LOL ** -- hoothat 10/30/2020 12:30AM
  Odd angle. ** -- hoothat 10/30/2020 12:36AM
  You really think you get it....but you can't -- hoothat 10/30/2020 12:34AM
  West Virginia equals loyal -- Mg234 10/30/2020 12:35AM
  LOL ** -- hoothat 10/30/2020 12:37AM
  ... its racist government ** -- WaxHoo 10/29/2020 3:20PM
  It's elected government. ** -- hoothat 10/29/2020 3:26PM
  Brilliant ** -- HAZER 10/30/2020 09:09AM
  Such a simplistic view... ** -- hoothat 10/29/2020 3:25PM
  Also he -- HoodatB 10/29/2020 3:03PM
  Such a great man - again, good riddance ** -- HptHokie 10/29/2020 3:04PM
  That is not what he was fighting for... -- hoothat 10/29/2020 3:03PM
  ^^^ Hoo y'are. Sad. ** -- WaxHoo 10/29/2020 2:59PM
  A racist. ** -- WaxHoo 10/29/2020 3:03PM
  Yeah right, moron ** -- TomGlansAski 10/29/2020 3:34PM
  Didn't read it. Sorry, racist. ** -- hoothat 10/29/2020 3:41PM
  Thus proving my point, pecker head ** -- TomGlansAski 10/29/2020 3:42PM
  Me? LOL. ** -- hoothat 10/29/2020 3:04PM

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