The Soapbox

Joined: 11/17/2011 Posts: 3039
Likes: 5546

What's this?

Your arguments go towards generalities because you are don't have a clear

point.

Sure the world is complex. But there is no analytical rigor to any analysis that stays at the "everyone is responsible" or "everything is responsible" level. Why did the Civil War happen? "Everyone. Everyone was at fault. The nation was at fault." Why did WW2 happen? "Everyone. Everyone was at fault. The nation was at fault." You are not wrong, but there is no substance to this argument.

Furthermore, this argument allows no moral judgements. Everything is relativistic and the blame is distributed so widely that no one should be held responsible for anything. You recognize this problem in your last line ("Stop trying to pick a good guy and a bad guy. Reality is more often in shades of gray.") But that moral agnosticism is not satisfying, and I honestly don't think you really believe in it either.

I really think this whole argument you are making is in bad faith because you do have pointed opinions about other things which are also complex.

I can stay at the general level as well and say that I am against racism and I am for free speech. But I think we are probably not saying the exact same thing. You need to grapple with some complexity.

The paragraph where you make your factual mistake is where you say "See, had either group not shown up, nothing would have happened. Had the NAZIs stayed home, no violence. Had Antifa stayed home, no violence. Oddly, it takes two to tango."

This is ridiculous. Do you blame the Poles for WW2? That is the same logic as being used here. One side was the aggressor, the other responded. There is not a moral equivalence EVEN if you don't believe that the actions of the responder were justified.

But more importantly, you are just factually incorrect. The "Antifa" did stay home. The group you call "antifa" were just local Charlottesville town folk. In their town. Not associated with any other organization. They counter-protested because their town was attacked. So one group did stay home, and there was still a battle.

[Post edited by BonsackHoo at 08/05/2018 5:14PM]

(In response to this post by hoothat)

Posted: 08/05/2018 at 5:12PM

+10

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Current Thread:

Who was responsible for the Unite the Right rally in Charlottesville? -- BonsackHoo 08/05/2018 4:28PM

I place roughly equal blame on the nazis and the media -- CharlestonSC 08/05/2018 6:41PM

Bull-fucking-shit. That is an appalling piece of equivalence. -- hoolstoptheheels 08/06/2018 09:35AM

Obviously I'm more cynical about the media than you are ... I think it is -- CharlestonSC 08/06/2018 10:53AM

I'm pretty sure I was careful not to assail your character. But I think -- hoolstoptheheels 08/06/2018 11:10AM

I don't pretend to have the answer, but I can sure as sh** see a problem -- CharlestonSC 08/06/2018 11:23AM

Well, that's I think the essense of the bullshit here. -- hoolstoptheheels 08/06/2018 11:38AM

The media? Seriously? Did the media bring all those -- 111Balz 08/05/2018 7:55PM

NO - as I said below: without the media, I believe they come and go with -- CharlestonSC 08/05/2018 8:29PM

Yeah, uh huh. The media is the propaganda arm of the Deep State. -- hoolstoptheheels 08/06/2018 09:46AM

I could not disagree more. These people found a voice in Breitbart prior -- Shenhoo 08/06/2018 08:06AM

Yeah, just because the media reports on cockroaches, doesn't make the media -- Hooddihsm 08/06/2018 08:24AM

That IMO is crazy talk. When thousands of white nationalists march through -- 111Balz 08/06/2018 07:12AM

Yeah I would say I regret saying "roughly equal blame" as clearly the nazis -- CharlestonSC 08/06/2018 07:38AM

My awareness that something was coming certainly came from reporting -- 111Balz 08/06/2018 08:07AM

That's a pretty dangerous argument to make. -- VAGentleman05 08/05/2018 10:39PM

No but they should only cover newsworthy events ... before Trump's election -- CharlestonSC 08/06/2018 07:02AM

30-40? So two thoughts: 1) it was thousands of people, not 30-40. It was I -- 111Balz 08/06/2018 07:53AM

Most news reports I just googled said a few hundred not thousands. -- Cold Hoober Hoo 08/06/2018 08:08AM

TBH, I think this is an insane quibble given the point Balz is refuting. -- hoolstoptheheels 08/06/2018 10:32AM

Then you googled poorly. And there were far fewer counter protesters -- 111Balz 08/06/2018 08:26AM

These 3 links should garner an apology from you. -- Cold Hoober Hoo 08/06/2018 08:45AM

Okay, you do realize that the "hundreds" description was about Friday -- 111Balz 08/06/2018 08:53AM

Your quote: -- Cold Hoober Hoo 08/06/2018 09:10AM

Okay, since this point is really important to your passive aggressive -- 111Balz 08/06/2018 09:26AM

For the love of God, there weren’t thousands of Nazis -- Cold Hoober Hoo 08/06/2018 09:39AM

Oh no it's not a coincidence ... I'm saying they're outpacing their -- CharlestonSC 08/06/2018 07:56AM

Or the media is covering their sudden emergence out of the shadows.As it -- 111Balz 08/06/2018 08:04AM

Huge difference -- hoothat 08/06/2018 12:56AM

There is a difference. One you are trying to cloud. So that you can deflect -- 111Balz 08/06/2018 07:14AM

Yep. ** -- Hokieesith 08/05/2018 8:30PM

Wow. ** -- hooshouse 08/05/2018 6:42PM

The nazis are assholes. They woke up assholes on August 10th and went to -- CharlestonSC 08/05/2018 6:45PM

Well, we're screwed once we buy into this concept of "blame" -- hoolstoptheheels 08/06/2018 09:25AM

You have a slight problem -- hoothat 08/05/2018 4:40PM

You're a joke, dude ** -- 111Balz 08/05/2018 7:56PM

Yup. He was on here a couple of days ago defending, in the most tiresome -- Seattle .Hoo 08/05/2018 11:25PM

I believe in free speech. -- hoothat 08/06/2018 02:12AM

You're an idiot, dude. ** -- hoothat 08/05/2018 8:56PM

Way to get metaphysical man. -- BonsackHoo 08/05/2018 4:45PM

He reads Nietzsche. ** -- WahooRQ 08/05/2018 7:46PM

Cute. I always draw out the usual subjects. -- hoothat 08/05/2018 8:14PM

TBH, I’d feel sorry for you if you weren’t such a raging asshole. ** -- WahooRQ 08/05/2018 8:17PM

Coming from a guy -- hoothat 08/05/2018 8:39PM

No one cares what you think. “Think” being a term of art, because you are -- WahooRQ 08/05/2018 9:03PM

Did I hurt your feelings? -- hoothat 08/05/2018 9:07PM

You can't look at complex issues through a narrow lense bonsack... -- hoothat 08/05/2018 4:53PM

There were good people on many sides. Right ** -- VAGentleman05 08/05/2018 6:38PM

He doesn't know. He doesn't want to know. He just wants to act as if ... ** -- WaxHoo 08/05/2018 5:46PM

Your arguments go towards generalities because you are don't have a clear -- BonsackHoo 08/05/2018 5:12PM

You’re wrong. Antifa was there. -- Hoos Operator 08/05/2018 5:55PM

So what. Nazis attacked our city and our school -- 111Balz 08/05/2018 8:09PM

They "attacked" -- hoothat 08/05/2018 8:49PM

Go sieg heil somewhere else ** -- 111Balz 08/06/2018 07:15AM

Or a permit to go through the streets of the downtown mall? ** -- BonsackHoo 08/05/2018 8:53PM

They were evicted from where they were... -- hoothat 08/05/2018 9:00PM

They were evicted because they did NOT follow orders. And if they had just -- 111Balz 08/06/2018 07:19AM

...You are talking out of your ass. -- hoothat 08/06/2018 09:46AM

You always change the discussion to make it seem to align with what you -- 111Balz 08/06/2018 09:54AM

I didn't change shit -- hoothat 08/06/2018 10:01AM

They had a permit to march in front of the Rotunda with tiki torches and -- Dudeman 08/05/2018 8:53PM

Did I defend that? -- hoothat 08/05/2018 9:49PM

Crickets ** -- Dudeman 08/05/2018 9:46PM

Sorry, I was talking to a deaf guy. ** -- hoothat 08/05/2018 9:50PM

Then you were not “talking” to me. ** -- Dudeman 08/05/2018 9:58PM

I know, that's why I apologized. -- hoothat 08/05/2018 10:02PM

A metaphor for this board if ever I read one. Buncha guys -- southdenverhoo 08/06/2018 08:38AM

And people that believe Jackie did also. Fueled by idiots like you. -- Hokieesith 08/05/2018 8:27PM

Are you seriously comparing an act of free speech -- hoothat 08/05/2018 5:33PM

Sarcastic voice: "The Germans crossing into Poland was simply an act of -- BonsackHoo 08/05/2018 6:12PM

SMH. Your town was not invaded... -- hoothat 08/05/2018 6:27PM

You really are an ass. Your act has really gotten old. -- 111Balz 08/05/2018 8:07PM

And you are seeing what you want. -- hoothat 08/05/2018 8:41PM

It is WAY too complex to know who was responsible for starting this thread -- BonsackHoo 08/05/2018 8:49PM

Are you having fun? -- hoothat 08/05/2018 8:53PM

It was fun. I am arguing...That is the definition of the First Amendment -- BonsackHoo 08/05/2018 9:02PM

It's cute you think that acronym bothers me. -- hoothat 08/05/2018 9:46PM

Definition of invasion: -- BonsackHoo 08/05/2018 7:06PM

What a dumbass statement. -- hoothat 08/05/2018 8:16PM

Ad Hominem attacks: calling me a "child". And saying that a dictionary -- BonsackHoo 08/05/2018 8:18PM

If you think that was an invasion... -- hoothat 08/05/2018 8:23PM

Another ad hominem. Bravo. -- BonsackHoo 08/05/2018 8:48PM

Finally you get it. -- hoothat 08/05/2018 8:50PM

Are you seriously arguing that Charlottesville residents didn't have the -- BonsackHoo 08/05/2018 8:53PM

I said that? Weird. It's not on my screen. -- hoothat 08/05/2018 8:55PM

No one says they do. But the alt-right does not have the right to invade -- BonsackHoo 08/05/2018 9:00PM

It's not an invasion if you have permission. -- hoothat 08/05/2018 9:03PM

You still haven't dealt with the tiki marchers, or the marching through -- BonsackHoo 08/05/2018 9:05PM

Probably me? Ya know what, fuck you. -- hoothat 08/05/2018 10:00PM

Unhinged. ** -- Hooddihsm 08/06/2018 08:00AM

Sure, whatever you say ** -- hoothat 08/06/2018 09:15AM

Sure, whatever you say ** -- hoothat 08/06/2018 09:14AM

It wasn’t an invasion. ** -- Hokieesith 08/05/2018 7:08PM

"Jews will not replace us" ** -- hooshouse 08/05/2018 6:44PM

I liked "alt-right", but I might have been answering a different question. -- hoolstoptheheels 08/05/2018 5:31PM

I agree with you. -- BonsackHoo 08/05/2018 6:18PM

Antifa ** -- BonsackHoo 08/05/2018 4:28PM

Alt-Right ** -- BonsackHoo 08/05/2018 4:28PM

Everyone ** -- BonsackHoo 08/05/2018 4:28PM