The Soapbox

Joined: 04/30/2006 Posts: 44679
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You're right that unconstitutional federal laws don't preempt state law, at

least not after they are declared unconstitutional. You seem to be missing some steps in between though -- namely that (a) the federal government has some incredibly broad grants of authority, which hardly anyone disputes and the SCOTUS has been clear over; (b) there is a Supremacy Clause that is clear as day and says federal statutes passed under one of those authorities are superior to state laws; and (c) there is often a complex preemption doctrine around these concepts regarding the interplay between the two.

I think C-Cav's post was as abhorrent and scary as the next guy, but he isn't wrong per se that the federal government has the power (if it so uses) to come in and enforce its laws if the state won't, as well as to stop the State from violating federal law. We saw that in the Civil War, we saw that in the Civil Rights Era, etc. That is actually how we ended segregation.

Now does that mean I think the troops should be called in because Seattle won't check a drunk driver with ICE? Of course not. But it's not as cut and dry as you make it.

(In response to this post by hoolstoptheheels)

Posted: 03/13/2018 at 12:59PM

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Current Thread:

Sanctuary Policies- creeping closer to -- Charleston Cav 03/13/2018 11:02AM

Bullshit. But keep dreaming. ** -- Seattle .Hoo 03/13/2018 2:44PM

Who in the hell would want this? -- hooshouse 03/13/2018 11:10AM

I think Charleston once posted that he tried -- KCHoo 03/13/2018 12:55PM

Ahhhh, no ** -- Charleston Cav 03/13/2018 1:24PM

Can only guess how that interview went. -- WahooRQ 03/13/2018 1:03PM

The Republic of Gilead ** -- WahooMatt05 03/13/2018 12:43PM

You may be looking at this the wrong way House. -- Hoodafan 03/13/2018 11:17AM

Not sure where I am on sanctuary cities. I hate seeing families ripped -- hooshouse 03/13/2018 11:37AM

That's what I don't understand on this issue. No one seems to be asking -- Hoodafan 03/13/2018 11:52AM

I have read that the cost to the cities is significant. ** -- KCHoo 03/13/2018 1:02PM

It could be, and there is a valid case to be made for Fed reimbursement of -- Hoodafan 03/13/2018 1:15PM

Not 100% on this, but suspect it’s more along the lines of not running -- WahooRQ 03/13/2018 12:43PM

No one is getting upset about jaywalkers roaming the streets, although if -- Hoodafan 03/13/2018 1:07PM

Point is, I think you're missing the impact on the state/city of doing an -- WahooRQ 03/13/2018 1:13PM

I don't think anyone is arguing it be done for simple ticketing, although -- Hoodafan 03/13/2018 1:26PM

My biggest problem with sanctuary cities (in the absence of secured -- Hokie5150 03/13/2018 11:43AM

Mr. Libertarian. ** -- Seattle .Hoo 03/13/2018 2:43PM

I have no problem whatsoever with an open immigration policy and with as -- Hokie5150 03/13/2018 2:48PM

You're missing the point, Federal Law is Federal law, Local, state -- Charleston Cav 03/13/2018 11:22AM

So you think the president should then have the ability -- KCHoo 03/13/2018 12:51PM

Yes ** -- Charleston Cav 03/13/2018 1:26PM

Get ready for a Tiananmen Square moment at the Seattle Center, huh? ** -- Seattle .Hoo 03/13/2018 2:56PM

Ok. So you favor scrapping the Constitution in favor of dictatorship. -- hoolstoptheheels 03/13/2018 2:54PM

Eisenhower did it. ** -- JMHoo 03/13/2018 1:16PM

No. He did not such thing. He followed Constitutional due process. -- hoolstoptheheels 03/13/2018 2:56PM

Kind of. The US Supreme Court and the lower -- KCHoo 03/13/2018 1:37PM

Hypothetical... What if a state decides to deny rights of a minority to -- HoosWillWin 03/13/2018 1:11PM

Oddly enough, I kind of agree with you. Didn't they do something -- HoosWillWin 03/13/2018 11:45AM

Uhh, that is utterly wrong. In fact its the other way around. -- hoolstoptheheels 03/13/2018 11:43AM

No, you are incorrect... -- Hoo23 03/13/2018 3:18PM

You couldn't be more wrong ** -- Charleston Cav 03/13/2018 12:43PM

In N Korea, I couldn't be more wrong. In the US, one sentence matters. -- hoolstoptheheels 03/13/2018 12:59PM

Article I, Section 8, clause 4 of the Constitution gives them that right -- Hoo23 03/13/2018 3:24PM

Here's a snippet from a law article that may help with this topic... -- Hoo23 03/13/2018 3:31PM

None of that has a thing to do with the federal government being able to -- KCHoo 03/13/2018 9:47PM

You are correct, however a sanctuary city cannot -- Hoo23 03/13/2018 11:34PM

Ok. Cool. So how about taking SF to court? -- hoolstoptheheels 03/13/2018 4:07PM

Nm** -- Hoo23 03/13/2018 11:39PM

There is also the Supremacy Clause -- Beerman 03/13/2018 1:11PM

So the answer is, take them to court. Not some -- hoolstoptheheels 03/13/2018 1:24PM

It wouldn't get far...see 2012 Supreme Court decision on Arizona vs. US -- Hoo23 03/13/2018 3:22PM

I'm not aware of any state looking to take anyone to court. -- hoolstoptheheels 03/13/2018 4:12PM

Agree 100% -- Beerman 03/13/2018 1:29PM

Really? I thought it was opposite, just based on the Supreme Court. -- HoosWillWin 03/13/2018 11:46AM

I believe you are looking for the 10th Amendment. -- hoolstoptheheels 03/13/2018 12:12PM

You're right that unconstitutional federal laws don't preempt state law, at -- WahooRQ 03/13/2018 12:59PM

Ahh, but in the words of Cole Porter -- southdenverhoo 03/13/2018 8:38PM

The 10th amendment is pretty cut and dried. -- hoolstoptheheels 03/13/2018 1:16PM

WADR, you're flat wrong and a bit out of your lane on this one, hool. -- WahooRQ 03/13/2018 1:21PM

I'm certainly not a lawyer. But then tell me how we reconcile the two? -- hoolstoptheheels 03/13/2018 1:29PM

It's pretty easy to reconcile. When there is no federal grant of authority -- WahooRQ 03/13/2018 1:41PM

Well, then winning in court should be a snap. -- hoolstoptheheels 03/13/2018 2:07PM

The Insurrection Act stuff is indeed off the reservation, batshit crazy... -- WahooRQ 03/13/2018 2:47PM

Who's rooting for a military dictatorship? ** -- hoothat 03/13/2018 12:54PM

Charleston ** -- hoolstoptheheels 03/13/2018 12:55PM

Can't speak for him -- hoothat 03/13/2018 1:00PM

Well, if rooting for US military invasions of US cities doesn't qualify -- hoolstoptheheels 03/13/2018 1:05PM

Was Little Rock and invasion? You have a sensationalistic play on words ** -- Charleston Cav 03/13/2018 1:34PM

Little Rock was enforcement of a court order. -- hoolstoptheheels 03/13/2018 1:36PM

...Was Lincoln a Military Dictator? -- hoothat 03/13/2018 1:09PM

So, let's revisit that question when CA and six other states secede from -- hoolstoptheheels 03/13/2018 1:32PM

Ahh, only if they secede -- hoothat 03/13/2018 1:42PM

Look, there are all kinds statements in this thread basically -- hoolstoptheheels 03/13/2018 2:13PM

...we won't agree ** -- hoothat 03/13/2018 3:43PM

To be fair -- Beerman 03/13/2018 12:57PM

I know. There are scary boogeymen everywhere. -- hoolstoptheheels 03/13/2018 1:02PM

I agree with you on the disturbing trend of many Americans -- HoosWillWin 03/13/2018 12:41PM

In part I think I initially interpreted Charleston's initial claim too -- hoolstoptheheels 03/13/2018 5:22PM

That's not the issue -- Beerman 03/13/2018 12:55PM

Is El Presidente Maximo going to federalize the National Guards to ... -- HowieT3 03/13/2018 11:37AM

No one argued that, and I'm certainly not defending much of what is done in -- Hoodafan 03/13/2018 11:34AM

So you must have been a huge fan of Abraham Lincoln then. ** -- WahooRQ 03/13/2018 11:23AM

One has to have a mind before one can lose it. ** -- HowieT3 03/13/2018 11:14AM