How do the policy proposals you’ve mentioned work in coordination with, or relate to, a larger goal of defunding police departments?
I want to push back on that a little bit. All of these are large. The language of “large” is sort of odd to me. There are two pockets to this: Reduce the power of the police, and then shift the resources, or shift the role. Most of the defund work is about shifting the role, which is incredibly important, but police are still going to be here tomorrow. Shrink the role work is gradual work. Even the most aggressive proposals don’t take away any money from the police that they currently have; they normally prevent the police from getting more money.

What we’re saying is if the police are going to exist tomorrow, they should have dramatically less power tomorrow. And we’re working to shift all of the responsibilities away from policing that have nothing to do with policing. We don’t need a person with a gun to go find a missing child; we don’t need a person with a gun to show up at a car crash; we don’t need a person with a gun to show up in a mental health crisis. That’s about shrinking the role and the responsibilities, and shifting them somewhere else. That’s the core of a defund strategy. But this is a both/and situation. Not an either/or. Both are big and have very different impacts.