The Soapbox

Joined: 01/04/2001 Posts: 26982
Likes: 34245

What's this?

I'm trying to say that nothing supports the notion that illegals from South

and Central America literally risk life and limb to come here to collect welfare. They come here as day laborers, and farm workers, and the guys who shoveled the snow out of my condo courtyard in -15 wind chills last week. Because those jobs are golden compared with what's available for them back home.

Does that mean none of them ever go to ERs as indigents? That none collect welfare? Certainly not. But there is not a shred of evidence that you can point to that says they are a net cost to the country. There is actually quite a bit of evidence that they make contributions - many in agribusiness say that without them, their workforce shrinks and their prices rise.

Again, I have no problem with the concept of enforcing immigration laws. Beef up the borders, especially if in conjunction with the reasonable approach we saw taking shape yesterday. Without all the fear and demagoguery - that's what you are trafficking in in this thread. We don't even have an accurate measure of the gross contributions or the gross costs of illegal immigrants - how on earth can you claim to have the slightest idea of what the net cost of illegals is?

(In response to this post by TomKazanski)

Posted: 01/10/2018 at 2:04PM

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Sorry if i missed the conversation. But i can't believe nobody here -- psychobilly 01/10/2018 12:58AM

Ever noticed how no one can ever articulate why we need to import millions -- TomKazanski 01/10/2018 09:53AM

1) we don't, your statement is ludicrous (sorry, BTTTS); 2) people talk all -- 111Balz 01/10/2018 10:55AM

Talk to farmers. ** -- hooshouse 01/10/2018 10:01AM

And talk to restaurant and construction owners -- VaTechie 01/10/2018 11:07AM

Techie, I think that "Americans will not take" is a bit of hogwash. Now if -- Hoodafan 01/10/2018 11:52AM

I should of let u know I thought it was hogwash -- VaTechie 01/10/2018 12:05PM

You really think americans would not do construction and home building? -- TomKazanski 01/10/2018 11:19AM

I definitely think Americans would -- VaTechie 01/10/2018 12:12PM

Umm, but it's done that way because they know they can pay them jack shit. -- hoothat 01/10/2018 1:48PM

Your talking to the choir -- VaTechie 01/10/2018 2:26PM

So you are saying American business owners refuse to hire Americans -- 111Balz 01/10/2018 11:38AM

Some of them. Yes. -- hoothat 01/10/2018 1:52PM

It has a negative effect only to the exten that people are shut out of jobs -- 111Balz 01/10/2018 2:06PM

Just because you don't feel exploited means you aren't? -- hoothat 01/10/2018 2:17PM

Well we sometimes pay them less, we make them hide out of fear of -- 111Balz 01/10/2018 2:27PM

...just because it's better to be exploited here than in their home country -- hoothat 01/10/2018 2:33PM

So then...as I have advocated for years...go after the exploiters -- 111Balz 01/10/2018 5:16PM

Is it? -- hoothat 01/10/2018 7:13PM

You realize...they do get paid, right? ** -- 111Balz 01/11/2018 07:50AM

You realize they often get paid under the table right? -- hoothat 01/11/2018 10:36AM

He could also ask those insidious libbrul commies at the Chamber of -- WahooRQ 01/10/2018 11:12AM

I think this is a really good question and observation. -- fphoo 01/10/2018 09:41AM

If only we could just remember back two years on how that administration -- TomKazanski 01/10/2018 09:56AM

I agree with the President on earmarks -- wahoo138 01/10/2018 09:36AM

I only watched a few excerpts on ABC news. I kept thinking how little -- Shenhoo 01/10/2018 09:18AM

He said he’s expecting a big beautiful bag of Pesos any day now. ** -- hooyorkcity 01/10/2018 09:24AM

It was a reaction to the new tell all book. At least IM strong O -- hoolstoptheheels 01/10/2018 08:25AM

Trump needs to be careful here. This issue is the main reason he was -- TomKazanski 01/10/2018 08:07AM

Yes, he used this issue to win the hateful and ignorant vote ** -- 111Balz 01/10/2018 08:33AM

It is hateful and ignorant to have a better accounting of who is coming -- Tuckahokie 01/10/2018 09:26AM

No, why do you ask? I certainly did not say that ** -- 111Balz 01/10/2018 10:54AM

Or the, come here legally not just freeload vote. ** -- SokurHoo83 01/10/2018 08:36AM

Do you think that's actually a reasonable way to put that? -- hoolstoptheheels 01/10/2018 09:04AM

Is it unreasonable to think "these guys" come here for countless number of -- Hokie5150 01/10/2018 09:16AM

No, it's not. "They're all coming to freeload" is not saying that. -- hoolstoptheheels 01/10/2018 09:36AM

Who said "they're all"? ** -- Hokie5150 01/10/2018 10:31AM

Sokur. "Come here legally and not just freeload". -- hoolstoptheheels 01/10/2018 10:34AM

Ignorance is acting like freeloading isnt an issue -- TomKazanski 01/10/2018 11:20AM

Documented where? ** -- hoolstoptheheels 01/10/2018 12:21PM

Ignorance is what you spew ** -- 111Balz 01/10/2018 11:33AM

Billions in entitlement costs annual differ with you ** -- TomKazanski 01/10/2018 11:40AM

That is absurd. -- hoolstoptheheels 01/10/2018 12:22PM

Are you really trying to say that illegals -- TomKazanski 01/10/2018 12:42PM

No he is saying the opposite of what you said, which is usually a safe bet -- 111Balz 01/10/2018 1:25PM

I think the beef is with your use of "entitlements" a la SS, Medicare, etc. -- Hoodafan 01/10/2018 12:48PM

Gotcha, maybe handouts is a better description -- TomKazanski 01/10/2018 12:50PM

I'm trying to say that nothing supports the notion that illegals from South -- hoolstoptheheels 01/10/2018 2:04PM

What entitlements are these undocumented immigrants getting if I may ask? ** -- WahooRQ 01/10/2018 11:44AM

KKKrickets, I see. ** -- WahooRQ 01/10/2018 12:56PM

Google is your friend, educate yourself ** -- TomKazanski 01/10/2018 1:12PM

I already have. I would like you to support your (false) argument. -- WahooRQ 01/10/2018 1:57PM

Regardless of why they are coming here they are a net negative -- TomKazanski 01/10/2018 09:50AM

I suspect that is an unsupportable statement. -- hoolstoptheheels 01/10/2018 10:30AM

I disagree with the introduction of robotics the need for immigration will -- TomKazanski 01/10/2018 11:17AM

Please feel free to support it at your leisure. -- hoolstoptheheels 01/10/2018 1:52PM

Who said anything about all? do you really think technology isnt going to -- TomKazanski 01/10/2018 1:59PM

In a nutshell, that is what I'm saying. -- hoolstoptheheels 01/10/2018 4:56PM

I see what you did there -- TomKazanski 01/10/2018 5:05PM

Nice edit. Walking back them being a “net negative” now are we? ** -- WahooRQ 01/10/2018 10:10AM

No way...just changed a there to a they and it must have cleared that. -- TomKazanski 01/10/2018 10:12AM

My guess is white people in Mississippi are far more a "drain on our -- WahooRQ 01/10/2018 09:52AM

You might want to review the welfare disribution by race in MS before -- TomKazanski 01/10/2018 10:14AM

Why -- are there a lot of undocumented immigrants on public assistance in -- WahooRQ 01/10/2018 10:53AM

Those white MSians are citizens and have a right to be here -- TomKazanski 01/10/2018 12:17PM

You did. And the subject was whether undocumentados are a "drain on -- WahooRQ 01/10/2018 12:52PM

I just laugh at how wrong all your assumptions are about me -- TomKazanski 01/10/2018 1:08PM

People like yourself = southern whites. -- WahooRQ 01/10/2018 1:48PM

You say tomato.... ** -- 111Balz 01/10/2018 08:43AM

So if you believe in folks coming legally you are "hateful and ignorant"? ** -- Hoodafan 01/10/2018 08:51AM

No. Why do you ask? That wasn't the point of discussion ** -- 111Balz 01/10/2018 08:57AM

Then why did you interject the "hateful and ignorant vote"? ** -- Hoodafan 01/10/2018 09:05AM

Because reb said that illegal immigrant removal is why Trump won -- 111Balz 01/10/2018 11:01AM

Because it plays to hateful and ignorant stereotypes, like Sokur -- hoolstoptheheels 01/10/2018 09:13AM

I’d argue if this is your #1 issue in America today... -- hooyorkcity 01/10/2018 09:12AM

If you believe undocumented immigrants come here to "freeload vote" -- WahooRQ 01/10/2018 08:56AM

Sorry I guess I shouldn't have left out a comma. Fixed inside for you. -- SokurHoo83 01/10/2018 09:25AM

That's a fix? Word of advice - think long and hard before you get behind -- WahooRQ 01/10/2018 09:47AM

I'm not behind an english only initiative. I'm behind a come here legally, -- SokurHoo83 01/10/2018 11:35AM

Your 1400 SAT's are failing you again. :-) I believe that would be -- Hoodafan 01/10/2018 09:10AM

Hooda...I did not respond to Sokur. Nor did I say that everyone who voted -- 111Balz 01/10/2018 11:05AM

You say tomato..... I say you suggested that anyone that supports Trump's -- Hoodafan 01/10/2018 11:13AM

That strawman is wobbly and weak in the knees. One more direct hit and I -- WahooRQ 01/10/2018 11:50AM

You say a lot of things that are wrong. I "suggested" that anyone who -- 111Balz 01/10/2018 11:37AM

I see you've now added "deportation" to the mix. I'm sure you'll blame TK -- Hoodafan 01/10/2018 11:59AM

Are you really this dense? ** -- 111Balz 01/10/2018 1:26PM

Why don't you read the post you were responding to. Damn dude ** -- WahooRQ 01/10/2018 09:27AM

No. No. No. It was African Americans who were bused in from Mississippi -- HowieT3 01/10/2018 09:16AM

It was Soros. ** -- hooyorkcity 01/10/2018 09:13AM

I spell potatoe... ** -- hooyorkcity 01/10/2018 08:50AM

Trump promised DACA to Pelosi and Schumer last year -- WahooMatt05 01/10/2018 06:23AM

It’s amazing how you have first hand knowledge of what went down -- TomKazanski 01/10/2018 08:05AM

I’ll trust the R whose district borders Mexico on this issue -- WahooMatt05 01/10/2018 08:40AM

Because it punches a gaping hole in the current "Trump is mentally unfit -- Tuckahokie 01/10/2018 05:19AM

Gaping hole? Hahaha. Trump is mentally unfit. ** -- Shenhoo 01/10/2018 07:39AM

“Gaping hole.” -- hooyorkcity 01/10/2018 07:22AM

I saw Kevin McCarthy step in and save his ass. He agreed on a DACA bill -- hooshouse 01/10/2018 06:57AM

The White House has already scrubbed the Transcript when Trump said he was -- hooyorkcity 01/10/2018 08:50AM

Seriously. He didn't even understand what he was saying in the meeting -- wahoo138 01/10/2018 08:49AM

Bingo. MSM gets played again and look like whiny children. ** -- ConnHoo 01/10/2018 06:13AM

Not at all. Trump had zero to offer. He was flipping like a banked bluegill ** -- Shenhoo 01/10/2018 08:02AM