Going off this line in your post, this is where I have a fundamental value difference with you and others. This is in part why I see the current strain of the GOP as being not just wrong but fundamentally immoral (or maybe amoral).

I am not saying it is our job or responsibility to accept as an immigrant every single person from Haiti or Congo or Guatemala wherever. I am also not saying we have to cure everyone else's problems. Admitting a thousand people from one country is not going to cure all their problems any more than offering $50 million in foreign aid will cure their problems.

But at the end of the day we are the richest country in the world. We have (i) a fundamental moral responsibility to help others in need (and for those of you who claim Christianity as your faith, the Bible goes long and deep about this), that is (ii) amplified because our extraordinary wealth as a country makes it even easier, and therefore even more compelling for us to do so.

But even if you are the worst foreign relations realist in the world, who makes Clausewitz seem like a loving puppy dog, applying foreign aid and admitting some (not all, but some) immigrants from some of these countries is an act of good will that in the long run benefits us. That we reach out and admit people from Trumpo's "shitholes" or "shithouses" or whatever moronic hairsplitting version of those words the GOP is now saying was really said, is a sign of our incredible strength and moral leadership in the world. It brings people in to give them a slice of the American dream -- after which they may very well elect to return home and do good. Foreign aid helps build infrastructure in foreign countries that can become trading partners as well as allies.

None of it is perfect and it doesn't always work. I just think it is morally justified, and even if you think it isn't a moral compulsion, it's ultimately beneficial. It is the act of compassion that matters to me. And I haven't even brought up the historical perspectives here -- how we have often meddled in these areas of the world in very bad ways.

Now the usual refrain from those I disagree with is that we have our own problems, let's take care of them before we start looking outside the country. I.e., "let's take care of our own." We sure do have our own problems. But that argument becomes very situationally selective. Why should we have a space program? We have tons of problems. Why should we fund medical research with gubmint money? We have other problems we should spend the money on. Why should we worry about roads and bridges when we have poor people in this country? The answer is that we can choose, carefully and responsibly. We are not always good at choosing carefully and responisbly, and we need to get much better at that. But I just think at some point it comes down to whether we should remain engaged enough in the world, creating bonds between our country and Trump's "shitholes", or just turn inward -- something that has never worked for us, ever, and something that has contributed to past world wars.

Not accusing you directly, Boca, because from your posting history I feel your motivations are good, but I think some people who use the "let's take care of our own first" line do so for reasons more in line with "those very fine people" who marched in Charlottesville.





[Post edited by Hood at 01/17/2018 10:49AM]