The Soapbox

Joined: 09/19/2008 Posts: 3846
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I get where you're coming from on that

Pence is certainly more conservative than Trump and a true believer. I still wanted him to replace Trump as soon as possible, even if it meant more conservative laws I wouldn't support and probably more success getting things through Congress where Trump failed. I honestly don't get Cruz's fundamental beliefs except that he believes Ted Cruz should have power. The same could be said for a lot of politicians with more charisma, which is how we have DeSantis leading primary polls now.

I can see that there are ways that the Democrats could have compromised, but most every time Trump tried to play Art of the Deal and screwed up by giving in on something important to the Democrats he was forced to course correct by McConnell and company. Functionally, the two biggest accomplishments of Trump's term were appointing judges and tax reform. I seriously doubt either that law or the judges appointed would be meaningfully different if Pence or Cruz or McConnell was the President.

My view--which I think isn't the same as Pelosi and co who were mostly focused on short term politics--was that all the laws passed and judges appointed were fruits of the poisoned tree. The GOP did get a lot of what they wanted and I don't hate all of the policy outcomes (hate some though). But I viewed it as a Faustian bargain, where I would rather have had 4, 8, 12, whatever years of unified Democratic rule before letting the corruption of Trump take over the party. If getting a tax cut and some judges meant the division that Trump sowed, the lies, and the violations of all kinds of government norms, then I didn't want that trade. It was eye-opening to me that people I thought were honorable (Graham, Paul Ryan, etc) were willing to make that trade.
[Post edited by CMUHoo at 10/04/2021 12:54PM]

(In response to this post by Hoodafan)

Posted: 10/04/2021 at 12:52PM

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Interesting nonpartisan take on the secession movement… -- Los Angeles Hoo 10/04/2021 12:37AM

Neither interesting nor non partisan ** -- 111Balz 10/04/2021 10:04AM

Nor a "movement" for that matter. ** -- VAGentleman05 10/04/2021 9:43PM

The trifecta! ** -- 111Balz 10/04/2021 10:53PM

There is no secession movement, period. -- Chuck Taylor 10/04/2021 06:59AM

I never knew U.Va. polling was controlled by Pooty. Thanks for clarifying. ** -- Los Angeles Hoo 10/04/2021 09:54AM

Well, I will give LA Hoothat one thing — when it comes to grousing about -- WahooRQ 10/04/2021 08:16AM

Forgive him, he believes the South did not try to secede and that they -- HooAskedYou 10/04/2021 07:32AM

Always good to see… -- Los Angeles Hoo 10/04/2021 12:19PM

I’d run from your prior post, too ** -- FxHoo 10/04/2021 12:56PM

LOLZ. I asked… -- Los Angeles Hoo 10/04/2021 1:02PM

Your post was clear the first time. Didn’t need to waste my time or anyone -- FxHoo 10/04/2021 3:15PM

“Set up questions”🤣🤣🤣 ** -- Los Angeles Hoo 10/04/2021 4:29PM

Tree of liberty, blood of tyrants and all that. 🙄 ** -- EspressHoo 10/04/2021 07:39AM

And a counterpoint to this argument courtesy of David French -- CMUHoo 10/04/2021 06:56AM

I’m not sure that’s a counterpoint, but thanks for posting… -- Los Angeles Hoo 10/04/2021 10:01AM

I'll add one other comment for you and @Hoodafan -- CMUHoo 10/04/2021 11:16AM

I think what you are missing is that… -- Los Angeles Hoo 10/04/2021 12:23PM

While correct, both can be true. No question Trump also sowed division. ** -- Hoodafan 10/04/2021 12:34PM

Trump sowed division because he was the first major… -- Los Angeles Hoo 10/04/2021 12:53PM

John McCain was a "milquetoast establishment Republican politician"? GMAFB ** -- VAGentleman05 10/04/2021 6:54PM

I can see that dull, boring troll patting himself on the back for stringing -- WahooRQ 10/04/2021 7:36PM

It's not indelicate language, I promise -- CMUHoo 10/04/2021 1:00PM

I'll offer you one counter thought. You point to the divisions as being -- Hoodafan 10/04/2021 11:42AM

My philosophy is that the left has to be perfect every day -- CMUHoo 10/04/2021 12:15PM

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. The sad thing is the Dems -- Hoodafan 10/04/2021 12:32PM

I get where you're coming from on that -- CMUHoo 10/04/2021 12:52PM

The left is far guiltier than the right in stoking division… -- Los Angeles Hoo 10/04/2021 12:13PM

The entirety of their populist positions relies on division. That's how -- Hoodafan 10/04/2021 12:18PM

I'm aware. That's why I was a Republican for so long. -- CMUHoo 10/04/2021 12:21PM

The left made them do it!!!! Lol. ** -- HooAskedYou 10/04/2021 12:05PM

Huh? That's the dismissal you lefties use. I'm not arguing Trump didn't -- Hoodafan 10/04/2021 12:08PM

I was looking for an excerpt that I thought summed it up the best -- CMUHoo 10/04/2021 11:05AM

I’m a bit more cynical. Think most of them know exactly what they are -- WahooRQ 10/04/2021 07:22AM

I don't think there is much understanding at all of the................. -- Chuck Taylor 10/04/2021 08:57AM

People like JM and Hooda know exactly what they’re doing. ** -- hooshouse 10/04/2021 07:35AM

I’m not sure Hooduh is all there, tbh, but JMQ was at least smart enough to -- WahooRQ 10/04/2021 08:45AM

I think Mitch, Fled, and others do. I think the masses of morons do not. ** -- 81_Hokie 10/04/2021 07:27AM

I think they like to pretend they don’t, but deep down really do understand -- WahooRQ 10/04/2021 08:09AM

Once sentence that mentions a poll then a couple of paragraphs that says -- 81_Hokie 10/04/2021 06:51AM

The author is a senior fellow at the Manhattan Institute, which is a -- HooAskedYou 10/04/2021 06:35AM

Yes. People who… -- Los Angeles Hoo 10/04/2021 09:53AM

Ad hominem attack? He didn’t do that until he called your reading comp poor -- EspressHoo 10/04/2021 11:04AM

Your reading comprehension is poor to awful. I only pointed out that -- HooAskedYou 10/04/2021 10:39AM

You didn’t read it, which is fine, but you pointed out… -- Los Angeles Hoo 10/04/2021 11:10AM

You claimed it was non-partisan; it is not. That is all I’m responding to. ** -- HooAskedYou 10/04/2021 12:06PM

Which party is it supporting and how?… -- Los Angeles Hoo 10/04/2021 12:42PM