The Soapbox

Joined: 08/31/2001 Posts: 31759
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What's this?

Not if there is overwhelming evidence to a quid pro quo.

It's the reason why the White House is so adamant about no quid quo pro. It's why Mick Mulvaney backtracked on his statements.

Also, there's some more nuance of the Hobbs Act. It's also about harming another person economically from a position of POWER ... especially if they use that POWER to deprive them of something they are legally entitled to. For example, Congressional approved military aid. It can be violated just through THREATS. It's an inchoate offense.

"Thing of value" is tough to parse IF any quid pro quo of personal benefit is established. That's why the WH is trying hard to claim it was about overall corruption ... but the testimonies, texts, and partial transcript clearly dispute it. It was about the DNC server and Burisma/Bidens. This is different than a FEC violation.

Nancy Pelosi was NEVER going to impeach Donald Trump until the moron released the partial transcripts. She's not stupid. Unless there is a strong sway in public support to remove the President 65%+, Pelosi knows she's not going to get conviction in the Senate. That said, for most moderates and independents ... this public hearing is going to severely hurt Trump chances in 2020. Trump can't win without our support ... especially with an economy trending down.

Another important aspect is the Senate races in 2020. Trump is trying to buy the Republican Senate votes through the enticement of campaign aid. He actually said it. It's pretty shady. It's not just about Colorado and Arizona. There are about 5-7 Senate races that's pretty close. There's no way McConnell wants to lose the Senate in 2020. He can't propose a cloture during the trial. It could be politically devastating. This is what worries McConnell the most.

Regardless of what Fox News and minion say, Trump put it on himself. Pelosi was never going to impeach until he blatantly ignored the Constitution. He's an IDIOT. To potentially lose the House, Senate, and White House in 2 years during a major upcycle in the economy is pathetic. That's why Trump is a MORON.

To be honest, Trump helps my wallet. NYC Finance is killing it in bonuses. That said, someone is going to pay for it in the long term ... most likely a lot of Trump's base. They just don't know it yet. That said, I understand why they don't want candidates like Warren and Sanders ... but Trump is no better and probably worse in the long run. Identity politics does not help your bank account.

[Post edited by Blah at 11/01/2019 02:23AM]

(In response to this post by southdenverhoo)

Posted: 11/01/2019 at 12:18AM

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Current Thread:

And now for something (sort of) different. -- HoosQ 10/31/2019 3:44PM

It's not illegal. ** -- JMHoo 10/31/2019 4:16PM

Irrelevant ** -- WaxHoo 10/31/2019 4:33PM

That’s right. ** -- JMHoo 10/31/2019 10:40PM

Then why is the White House so adamant there was no quid pro quo? -- Blah 10/31/2019 4:20PM

It's the, "It happens all the time. Get over it." defense used by Mulvaney. ** -- Blah 10/31/2019 4:30PM

No. JM and I have argued in the context of Mueller investigation over this. -- southdenverhoo 10/31/2019 6:16PM

There are few legal terms more broadly construed than "thing of value." I -- WahooRQ 11/01/2019 10:58AM

But the Supremes are, above all, political. See Bush v Gore, and that was a -- southdenverhoo 11/01/2019 11:17AM

Well, I guess in this instance you have what dick-with-ears Matt Gaetz -- WahooRQ 11/01/2019 11:31AM

This is different from Mueller investigation which was always ... -- Blah 10/31/2019 6:46PM

Remember Governor McDonnell’s bribery conviction getting overturned? -- southdenverhoo 10/31/2019 9:07PM

Are you saying government call from the Oval Office ... -- Blah 10/31/2019 9:27PM

I’m saying IF this was a criminal prosecution there’s a good chance THIS -- southdenverhoo 10/31/2019 9:31PM

Not because they are questioning it as "an official act." -- Blah 10/31/2019 9:51PM

No, I was using the parsing the McDonnell opinion did on “official act” to -- southdenverhoo 10/31/2019 10:58PM

Not if there is overwhelming evidence to a quid pro quo. -- Blah 11/01/2019 12:18AM

Well, obviously this is all moot since an impeachment is not a criminal -- southdenverhoo 11/01/2019 08:01AM

JMHoo does not know what he's talking about. You have a far better grasp. -- Blah 11/01/2019 10:35AM

"Collusion" is a meaningless term used by the media. Conspiracy is the -- WahooRQ 11/01/2019 11:13AM

Lots of good points. I just say collusion because ... -- Blah 11/01/2019 11:43AM

I'm sure your prosecutor friends will also tell you if he wasn't POTUS he -- WahooRQ 11/01/2019 12:10PM

People were so shocked by Trump's brazen efforts to obstruct ... -- Blah 11/01/2019 12:18PM

Yes, asking for an investigation of a Ukrainian company is pretty thin -- JMHoo 10/31/2019 9:19PM

I of course feel there was a pretty clear quid and a pretty clear pro quo -- southdenverhoo 10/31/2019 9:26PM

You are correct that this has always been about 2020. -- JMHoo 10/31/2019 10:38PM

What the hell are you talking about? -- Blah 11/01/2019 12:58AM

And another FOS statement. She announced the impeachment before the -- Hoodafan 11/01/2019 08:52AM

She wanted an investigation. She never said she was going to impeach. -- Blah 11/01/2019 10:42AM

These dudes are squirming like worms on a hook. ** -- Seattle .Hoo 10/31/2019 4:44PM

So he thought there was nothing "wrong" with the call ... -- Blah 10/31/2019 4:16PM

To your second statement, that's why he thinks it's not illegal. I suspect -- 81_Hokie 10/31/2019 4:30PM

I thought he was a Susan Rice flunky? -- HokieDelNorte 10/31/2019 5:51PM

He is opening up Morrison's Hotel ** -- Tuckahokie 10/31/2019 4:26PM

Next to Morrison's cafeteria? ** -- Oregon Hoo 10/31/2019 4:29PM

AKA a soul kitchen ** -- Tuckahokie 10/31/2019 4:32PM

This is the end. Trumpanzee friend, the end. ** -- WahooRQ 11/01/2019 12:00PM

I'll have four fried chickens... and a coke. ** -- 81_Hokie 10/31/2019 6:03PM

That's just weird. He corroborates Taylor and the quid pro quo, -- Hoo TV 10/31/2019 4:06PM

That's what happens when you receive selectively leaked information and -- Hoos Operator 10/31/2019 4:40PM

It was well known he was going to say he didn’t think it was illegal -- 111Balz 10/31/2019 7:36PM

Was there a news reporter present in the hearing room? ** -- Hoos Operator 10/31/2019 7:41PM

“People close to him” had been saying for a few days -- 111Balz 10/31/2019 8:10PM

In other words second-hand information interpreted by a reporter who may -- Hoos Operator 10/31/2019 8:23PM

Top of the evening, Balzie. ** -- Hoos Operator 10/31/2019 8:34PM

And to you, hope everyone stays safe out there. -- 111Balz 10/31/2019 8:53PM

Really? Just another hot, muggy evening here in Tampa. ** -- Hoos Operator 10/31/2019 8:54PM

We had some weird November weather -- 111Balz 11/01/2019 07:44AM

Of course you do ** -- 111Balz 10/31/2019 8:27PM

It doesn't matter if he thinks it was legal or not -- WahooMatt05 10/31/2019 3:54PM

Exactly. Looks like Republicans are ready to normalize it. ** -- DanTheFan 10/31/2019 5:18PM