The Soapbox

Joined: 04/30/2006 Posts: 44695
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"Collusion" is a meaningless term used by the media. Conspiracy is the

crime that Mueller just didn't seem to find. He found a lot of evidence that the Russians did a number of things to help the Trump campaign, that the Trump campaign knew about it and gladly took the help, but not that the Trump campaign conspired with the Russians to engage in illegal activity. So yes, there was no "crime" in that sense (there were lots of other crimes uncovered and people who went to jail or are foreigners who are under indictment if they ever set foot in the US), but lots of sleazy behavior and bad acts nonetheless. Not to mention 11 actionable instances of obstruction of justice by Trump himself, which he was not indicted for simply because he was president.

On Ukraine, "criminal activity" let alone a felony isn't even a prerequisite. Entirely different legal term of art at play -- "high crimes and misdemeanors" is not a cross-reference to the US Code, which is something else the Trumptards just can't get straight. It's derived from English Common Law and essentially means abuse of power or abuse of office. It certainly "can" be commission of a crime, but doesn't has to be. Likewise, there are technical "crimes and misdemeanors" that wouldn't give rise to impeachment (say the president for some reason is driving and is pulled over for speeding).

Of course, what Trump did is a CLEAR abuse of power and abuse of office, as well as a likely violation of several federal statutes, including campaign finance laws and potentially the bribery statute JM and SDH were debating. The case for impeachment is far better than it was for Clinton and even stronger than it was for Nixon. The only thing holding it back is the fact that today's GOP simply doesn't care.

(In response to this post by Blah)

Posted: 11/01/2019 at 11:13AM

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Current Thread:

And now for something (sort of) different. -- HoosQ 10/31/2019 3:44PM

It's not illegal. ** -- JMHoo 10/31/2019 4:16PM

Irrelevant ** -- WaxHoo 10/31/2019 4:33PM

That’s right. ** -- JMHoo 10/31/2019 10:40PM

Then why is the White House so adamant there was no quid pro quo? -- Blah 10/31/2019 4:20PM

It's the, "It happens all the time. Get over it." defense used by Mulvaney. ** -- Blah 10/31/2019 4:30PM

No. JM and I have argued in the context of Mueller investigation over this. -- southdenverhoo 10/31/2019 6:16PM

There are few legal terms more broadly construed than "thing of value." I -- WahooRQ 11/01/2019 10:58AM

But the Supremes are, above all, political. See Bush v Gore, and that was a -- southdenverhoo 11/01/2019 11:17AM

Well, I guess in this instance you have what dick-with-ears Matt Gaetz -- WahooRQ 11/01/2019 11:31AM

This is different from Mueller investigation which was always ... -- Blah 10/31/2019 6:46PM

Remember Governor McDonnell’s bribery conviction getting overturned? -- southdenverhoo 10/31/2019 9:07PM

Are you saying government call from the Oval Office ... -- Blah 10/31/2019 9:27PM

I’m saying IF this was a criminal prosecution there’s a good chance THIS -- southdenverhoo 10/31/2019 9:31PM

Not because they are questioning it as "an official act." -- Blah 10/31/2019 9:51PM

No, I was using the parsing the McDonnell opinion did on “official act” to -- southdenverhoo 10/31/2019 10:58PM

Not if there is overwhelming evidence to a quid pro quo. -- Blah 11/01/2019 12:18AM

Well, obviously this is all moot since an impeachment is not a criminal -- southdenverhoo 11/01/2019 08:01AM

JMHoo does not know what he's talking about. You have a far better grasp. -- Blah 11/01/2019 10:35AM

"Collusion" is a meaningless term used by the media. Conspiracy is the -- WahooRQ 11/01/2019 11:13AM

Lots of good points. I just say collusion because ... -- Blah 11/01/2019 11:43AM

I'm sure your prosecutor friends will also tell you if he wasn't POTUS he -- WahooRQ 11/01/2019 12:10PM

People were so shocked by Trump's brazen efforts to obstruct ... -- Blah 11/01/2019 12:18PM

Yes, asking for an investigation of a Ukrainian company is pretty thin -- JMHoo 10/31/2019 9:19PM

I of course feel there was a pretty clear quid and a pretty clear pro quo -- southdenverhoo 10/31/2019 9:26PM

You are correct that this has always been about 2020. -- JMHoo 10/31/2019 10:38PM

What the hell are you talking about? -- Blah 11/01/2019 12:58AM

And another FOS statement. She announced the impeachment before the -- Hoodafan 11/01/2019 08:52AM

She wanted an investigation. She never said she was going to impeach. -- Blah 11/01/2019 10:42AM

These dudes are squirming like worms on a hook. ** -- Seattle .Hoo 10/31/2019 4:44PM

So he thought there was nothing "wrong" with the call ... -- Blah 10/31/2019 4:16PM

To your second statement, that's why he thinks it's not illegal. I suspect -- 81_Hokie 10/31/2019 4:30PM

I thought he was a Susan Rice flunky? -- HokieDelNorte 10/31/2019 5:51PM

He is opening up Morrison's Hotel ** -- Tuckahokie 10/31/2019 4:26PM

Next to Morrison's cafeteria? ** -- Oregon Hoo 10/31/2019 4:29PM

AKA a soul kitchen ** -- Tuckahokie 10/31/2019 4:32PM

This is the end. Trumpanzee friend, the end. ** -- WahooRQ 11/01/2019 12:00PM

I'll have four fried chickens... and a coke. ** -- 81_Hokie 10/31/2019 6:03PM

That's just weird. He corroborates Taylor and the quid pro quo, -- Hoo TV 10/31/2019 4:06PM

That's what happens when you receive selectively leaked information and -- Hoos Operator 10/31/2019 4:40PM

It was well known he was going to say he didn’t think it was illegal -- 111Balz 10/31/2019 7:36PM

Was there a news reporter present in the hearing room? ** -- Hoos Operator 10/31/2019 7:41PM

“People close to him” had been saying for a few days -- 111Balz 10/31/2019 8:10PM

In other words second-hand information interpreted by a reporter who may -- Hoos Operator 10/31/2019 8:23PM

Top of the evening, Balzie. ** -- Hoos Operator 10/31/2019 8:34PM

And to you, hope everyone stays safe out there. -- 111Balz 10/31/2019 8:53PM

Really? Just another hot, muggy evening here in Tampa. ** -- Hoos Operator 10/31/2019 8:54PM

We had some weird November weather -- 111Balz 11/01/2019 07:44AM

Of course you do ** -- 111Balz 10/31/2019 8:27PM

It doesn't matter if he thinks it was legal or not -- WahooMatt05 10/31/2019 3:54PM

Exactly. Looks like Republicans are ready to normalize it. ** -- DanTheFan 10/31/2019 5:18PM