The Soapbox

Joined: 01/04/2001 Posts: 26971
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But we should be realistic about what it is - a purely political process,

looking into a political crime. Trump may or may not have committed statutory violations with his speech on Jan 6, but there, I think Trumpies defending him by focusing on specific words are on much stronger footing. Whether that, or other things like the Georgia call, are actual crimes will depend on the statutes and how they compare with Trump's actual statements and actions.

The political accusation to be considered by the senate is very different. Trump called for his "troops" to assemble. He then had some of his sycophants start to rile them up. Then he spoke, sent them off to "fight for their country (Americans know they were fighting to destroy it)" at the Capitol, and, what, went back inside to microwave some popcorn and enjoy watching what he'd unleashed, like a reality TV series finale? How did he react? Shouldn't he have been horrified, and immediately released a very powerful statement for the rioters to cease or face severe consequences? Shouldn't he have moved heaven and earth to get reinforcements in there? He probably should have gone there himself, which he actually said he was going to do, and appeal for calm in person.

All of those things plus the impact of the entire vote fraud disinformation campaign can be considered in the political process of the senate trial in ways that they can't necessarily in judicial proceedings. But given that it is political, sure, horse trading with repubs just moved to the minority should be expected.

IMO, that is one of the major resets needed by the country - a more realistic, less idealistic, view of what politics and government should look like in a democratic republic of 350 mil people.

[Post edited by hoolstoptheheels at 01/25/2021 09:27AM]

(In response to this post by WahooRQ)

Posted: 01/25/2021 at 09:17AM

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Political intel: Articles of Impeachment being delivered this evening; -- WahooRQ 01/25/2021 08:58AM

The GOPers won't vote to convict and worse, these bastards are going to -- Seattle .Hoo 01/25/2021 10:14AM

You are finally catching on -- TomKazanski 01/25/2021 11:15AM

But we should be realistic about what it is - a purely political process, -- hoolstoptheheels 01/25/2021 09:17AM

Did you just use the word Troops to label the group of protesters -- TomKazanski 01/25/2021 10:39AM

We’re focused on doubling down on democracy. The first thing that -- hoolstoptheheels 01/25/2021 11:16AM

Ahh a lot of those were not even heard because of standing -- TomKazanski 01/25/2021 12:12PM

Those items have no impact on our elections just because you say they do. -- hoolstoptheheels 01/25/2021 12:27PM

Democracy is largely about the people, through their elected reps,... -- Los Angeles Hoo 01/25/2021 11:41AM

Of course I am, precisely because of need for respect for process. -- hoolstoptheheels 01/25/2021 11:57AM

I take no pride in... -- Los Angeles Hoo 01/25/2021 12:24PM

No, wrong, bullshit. I suppose it is possible that you simply don’t -- hoolstoptheheels 01/25/2021 12:32PM

It's not for the courts to decide, and perhaps that's where... -- Los Angeles Hoo 01/25/2021 12:57PM

So, yeah, lack of understanding of American civics it is. Thanks for -- hoolstoptheheels 01/25/2021 1:10PM

Great post... -- Los Angeles Hoo 01/25/2021 2:37PM

You lack a fundamental understanding of how our court system and separation -- WahooRQ 01/25/2021 3:53PM

Alright LA, I am going to call it a day on this. I think you completely -- hoolstoptheheels 01/25/2021 3:39PM

You are again conflating issues... -- Los Angeles Hoo 01/25/2021 4:02PM

Sorry, but you don't get to file a bunch of vague, bullshit lawsuits where -- WahooRQ 01/25/2021 4:14PM

There's nothing vague about the lawsuits to anyone paying attention... -- Los Angeles Hoo 01/25/2021 4:20PM

You're so far outta your element here we should start calling you Donnie. -- WahooRQ 01/25/2021 4:30PM

Just to be clear, standing is a long held conservative legal doctrine -- CMUHoo 01/25/2021 3:32PM

I'm not saying that standing isn't a legit doctrine. I'm saying that... -- Los Angeles Hoo 01/25/2021 4:54PM

While I might agree with 1 in the abstract, the problem is 2 -- CMUHoo 01/25/2021 5:38PM

I appreciate the thoughtful response and will just leave it there. ** -- Los Angeles Hoo 01/25/2021 5:58PM

The fact that in a six week period, nobody with legal standing did bring a -- hoolstoptheheels 01/25/2021 5:13PM

Who has legal standing to have their election contest heard in court?** -- Los Angeles Hoo 01/25/2021 5:18PM

I would assume anyone who would actually be impacted by the state’s -- hoolstoptheheels 01/25/2021 5:24PM

Exactly, although it relates to multiple states, not just PA. It would... -- Los Angeles Hoo 01/25/2021 5:49PM

Such as this one filed by the PA dem party? -- hoolstoptheheels 01/26/2021 08:48AM

It's not a longstanding conservative doctrine so much as it's a fundamental -- WahooRQ 01/25/2021 3:56PM

Who has standing to have their election-related contests heard in court? ** -- Los Angeles Hoo 01/25/2021 5:26PM

Yes, but on the whole conservative jurists use standing more than liberals -- CMUHoo 01/25/2021 3:58PM

Where does the dishonesty and attempted gaslighting end and the -- WahooRQ 01/25/2021 1:06PM

You read that, and it’s a long winded attack on the deep state combined -- hoolstoptheheels 01/25/2021 1:15PM

That's just in bad faith, hool. I said neither, and nothing close to it... -- Los Angeles Hoo 01/25/2021 3:10PM

I disagree. You were the one who introduced the fact that courts can’t be -- hoolstoptheheels 01/25/2021 3:44PM

False. You can distrust, disavow, disagree with, whatever anything... -- Los Angeles Hoo 01/25/2021 4:09PM

Ok, so don’t engage with me. Personally, I think you talk in circles. -- hoolstoptheheels 01/25/2021 4:34PM

Impeached 2x for speech. Exonerated 2x by the speech text itself. Tragical ** -- Los Angeles Hoo 01/25/2021 10:59AM

YOU LIE AND LIE AND LIE! And, tell us about your -- WaxHoo 01/25/2021 10:48AM

To me this is as cut and dried case of incitement to riot as you could -- 81_Hokie 01/25/2021 09:55AM

His only real defense is that it’s not his fault his followers are stupid e -- 111Balz 01/25/2021 10:37AM

No even close. Politicians telling people to fight for their rights -- Hokieesith 01/25/2021 10:14AM

Telling them to use violence = conspiracy right? Who said that was what -- HoodatB 01/25/2021 10:58AM

He told them to fight to overthrow a free and fair election for God's sake. -- Chuck Taylor 01/25/2021 10:19AM

He said walk down the Capitol with him and fight ** -- wahoo138 01/25/2021 10:06AM

From an impeachment trial standpoint, I totally agree. -- hoolstoptheheels 01/25/2021 10:01AM

Probably would not go to prison for a criminal offense here, but that is -- WahooRQ 01/25/2021 10:06AM

Yeah, my take on this is if Republicans vote to convict, it will be for -- WahooRQ 01/25/2021 09:28AM

I mean, you saw the arguments being raised yesterday by the relentless -- hoolstoptheheels 01/25/2021 09:41AM

Have said all along I will believe it when I see it. But I do think it -- WahooRQ 01/25/2021 09:45AM

Thanks for the inside info! -- JMHoo 01/25/2021 09:17AM

Just passing along what I got from some Norfolk, VA traffic court lawyer -- WahooRQ 01/25/2021 09:29AM

The trifling babyish world of D's: removing a guy from office that's -- HokieDan95 01/25/2021 09:10AM

Accountability, it’s not just counting to 10 on your fingers and toes ** -- 111Balz 01/25/2021 10:33AM

Coming for you next impeachment TJ! ** -- Hoodafan 01/25/2021 10:17AM

Trump was impeached while in office dodohead ** -- HoodatB 01/25/2021 10:59AM

Ya don't say? I thought the post was about removing a guy from office that -- Hoodafan 01/25/2021 11:03AM

You mentioned impeaching TJ, you brought that ** -- HoodatB 01/25/2021 1:17PM

William Belknap - impeached & convicted AFTER resigning in 1876. ** -- Blah 01/25/2021 11:24AM

There are times where your "real" handle seems more like a parody than -- WahooRQ 01/25/2021 10:35AM

When in doubt always double down DumbassQ. ** -- Hoodafan 01/25/2021 10:45AM

LOL. Trump was impeached while in office. ** -- Blah 01/25/2021 10:24AM

Boom! Nailed it. It's all about fear. LOL. ** -- Blah 01/25/2021 10:11AM

So wait, let me get this straight from you ... -- HoodatB 01/25/2021 10:00AM

A great opportunity to get him off the dole, -- aint2Hokie4me 01/25/2021 09:29AM

And he’s feeling strong. He will sing this victory song. ** -- JMHoo 01/25/2021 09:21AM

Crack has addled your brain, Dan ** -- TomGlansAski 01/25/2021 09:21AM

You think accountability for inciting an insurrection is trifling? -- SixerHoo 01/25/2021 09:16AM

He thinks insurrection is perfectly acceptable, normal in fact** -- WaxHoo 01/25/2021 09:21AM

Trump was just asking rhetorical questions. How was he supposed to know -- WahooRQ 01/25/2021 09:42AM

Now that was funny Danny. And early on a Monday too. Been -- Lazarus 01/25/2021 09:15AM

^^ plumbing the depths of stoopid. Seems there is no bottom** -- WaxHoo 01/25/2021 09:15AM

We did it with Nixon; why wouldn't we do it with Orange Asswipe?!?!? ** -- ResistHoo 01/25/2021 09:15AM

Republicans will not convict, even if they were to witness him shooting -- WaxHoo 01/25/2021 09:01AM

I'll guess 51-49 (Romney) ** -- HoosQ 01/25/2021 08:59AM

Maybe Lisa. ** -- Shenhoo 01/25/2021 09:16AM

Mcconnell, Sasse ** -- wahoo138 01/25/2021 10:07AM

I'll believe McConnell when I see it. Sasse has a lot of Collins in him. -- 81_Hokie 01/25/2021 10:13AM

Rob Portman just announced he's not running in 2022 -- wahoo138 01/25/2021 10:41AM

Nah. No follow through from that one. ** -- HoosQ 01/25/2021 09:50AM